The people speak: Feminist journalist hears but won’t listen

You might be interested in taking a look at this article entitled ‘A gender-equality wish list for 2016’, and the readers comments that follow.

The article was written by feminist journalist Wendy Tuohy. I think I first introduced Wendy in this blog post. I would probably place her in the second tier of Australian feminist journalists, were they ranked according to stridency and degree of bigotry. In other words she is a self-professed feminist with narrow and stereotypical views on gender matters, but by no means barking mad. Like many feminists she enjoys cats and blocking dissenting voices.

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The issues that Wendy flagged in her latest article included domestic violence, the gender pay gap, the proportion of women in management positions, the number of women on current affairs show panels, female economic empowerment, and women playing football. No surprises there.

Ah, but then Wendy got a surprise. For with but two exceptions, her readers tore her article to shreds. Quite coherently, and with facts.

Some brief extracts from Wendy’s readers:

“We have a media dominated by women’s voices focusing (as most of you do) exclusively on women’s issues. It’s simply mind blowing to hear you say women have no voice. The only time men can speak with any confidence they won’t be crucified by the media is when they speak in total support of anything concerning the welfare of women”

“Sure, you have two journos dedicated to women’s issues and none dedicated to men’s. Maybe get a third female journo talking about female issues as a step closer to equality? Maybe four or five and we are there?”

“Yes we need to do more about DV mostly adopting an honest approach, recognizing that it is not a gendered crime and producing all the stats not just part of them.

The figure of 78 women has been front and centre but broken down 28 were not DV related and 10 were killed by women so men killed 40 women and 4 children (DV related). Women killed 19 men and 10 women plus after removing clear cases of mental problems they killed 11 children.”

The final numbers, men (in a DV situation) killed 44 and women killed 40. So let us be honest next year and tackle the problem in an unbiased manner.”

True to feminist form Wendy did not respond to her critics here, let alone attempt a rebuttal of the points they raised. But elsewhere, in her Twitter account, she implored a supporter to avoid reading the comments in the Herald-Sun, of which she was haughtily dismissive …

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Yes, whatever you do fellow feminists, don’t expose yourselves to the nasty views of the unbelievers.

Hold true to your feelz, and to our precious narrative, special snowflakes!

Don’t learn, don’t understand, don’t engage or collaborate, and don’t empathise. We’ll show them.

 

But then the fear and loathing with which feminists and SJW view the dark threat that constitutes the reader’s comments section is now well-recognised. (PS: And in fact Wendy has since closed her blog because of her disdain for comments contributed by her readers)

Australian MRA Mark Dent also posted a copy of his reader’s comment on Wendy’s Facebook page. The subsequent exchange between Mark and Wendy is quite interesting, and I’ve reproduced it below in the event that it disappears from Facebook.

“Hi Mark, my brief is to focus on issues impacting women, kids and families — all of which are affected by the issues I touched on in my article titled ‘A few small changes could make a big difference’ in The Herald Sun last Sunday, and just up on my blog. Of course I care about issues impacting men: I’ve written lots about male adolescent mental health and better supporting boys in education and not ‘writing off’ teen boys (of which I have two lovely examples). But I stick to my primary brief in most of my work: issues primarily impacting women. Here is one pay gap link, reporting ABS statistics. Thanks for reading, Wendy”

(Mark replies) “Thanks for responding (as you always do) but you have proved my point. The media are not stupid. They know women devour stories about their victimhood or heroism. This is why our papers and TVs are saturated with females talking about issues which affect women.

Please point out one male journalist whose brief is to write exclusively about issues which are confronting men and placing them at a disadvantage. It seems there are many women who do just what you do so how do you then complain about a lack of female voices in the media?

Just because your brief is to focus on women’s issues does not make your statements about gender inequality any more true or acceptable.

I have presented a range of issues which impact upon men in a far more devastating way than a mythical wage gap based on gender or a purported lack of a voice (when the opposite is true). Men’s issues are about death, injury, the right to see their own children, huge disparity in sentencing for the same crime when compared to women and their total invisibility when it comes to being victims of family violence. There are weighty issues which lead to homelessness and suicide yet when was the last time any paper devoted a segment to the horrendous obstacles and injustices confronting men?”

(Wendy replies) “Mark, my former editor, Simon Pristel called me in and commissioned me to write a blog/do a round focused on women. I don’t know what his thinking was or why he chose me to do it (I was a general features writer before that for a couple of decades) but it has been going now for about 5 years so I guess it must be considered to be serving a market that perhaps we weren’t offering as much for previously.”

Mark: “Wendy-I am not attacking you for writing about women’s issues. I am questioning why this should almost always lead to anguished diatribes on all of the inequities women supposedly face and creating the very false narrative which says men are somehow privileged over women in our society.

As I have said repeatedly (and supported with facts) it is men who suffer the biggest obstacles and disadvantages as a result of their gender.

I challenged you to point out one male journalist who devotes his whole job to writing about issues concerning men and you didn’t respond. The very fact that male editors ignore men’s issues backs up my comments about politicians (male and female) devoting all of their time, energy and funding to women’s issues.

Men simply don’t matter in our world.”

Wendy: “Men matter Mark. Perhaps the ones who need attention the most don’t get it, I can only say as the daughter of a non ‘Alpha’ male and wife of same and mother of same X 2 that maybe it’s harder for the non typically macho men. That is a guess. Shoot me down if you want to.”

Mark: I don’t want to shoot you down. You seem to be a lovely person. It is just so upsetting to be fed this line of female suffering and inequality day after day in our media. You seem to accept my arguments with regard to male disadvantage but unlike female issues-there is literally no focus on these issues.

As I said-women have a voice-men have no voice in our mainstream media. You say men matter but whenever you write about family violence you focus exclusively on female victims, just as Rosie Batty does. How can this be justified?

I am passionate about the very real gender empathy gap in our society and will continue to voice my concerns whenever the opportunity arises. Here’s something I wrote about the gender empathy gap.

Thanks again for engaging in such a civilized manner.”

Wendy: “Mark, thank you for treating me civilly, unlike some men on Twitter, one of whom reacted to my column like this:”

abuse

Mark: That kind of language is totally unacceptable, Wendy. This type of abuse is often a result of deep frustration over the issues I have tried to outline in our discussion. Some men respond to the sense of injustice and helplessness (men have no voice in the public forum) with angry attacks.

I am not justifying or excusing it, but I have been abused in a most vile manner by feminists for simply presenting the arguments I have written to you. One group of feminists actually set up a website and posted pics of me and wrote lies about me being a hater of women and girls and someone who excuses DV. They said they wanted me sacked from my job as a teacher. They literally made stuff up. All because I asked why we don’t give the same attention and compassion to the suffering of males.

I know Andrew Bolt gets death threats and abuse every day. My point? Many female journalists hold up online abuse as some kind of male problem carried out by neanderthals who hate women. Men receive vile, abuse from women too. Clem Ford is a mainstream journalist who uses far worse language than that directed at you and as I said-there are no repercussions. Yet she gets a man sacked from his job for abusing her.

Perhaps if men had an opportunity to be heard in the media rather than be mocked or branded a woman hater for expressing concern for males there would be less anger and frustration in the community. You have never had to endure an almost daily assault on your gender for nigh on forty years, Wendy.

Anyway, I thank you again for engaging and allowing me an opportunity to express my views.”

A civil exchange without a trace of rancour, but you would have observed that neither here nor in her tweet does the journalist actually address the *facts* raised by readers.

Whilst Wendy Tuohy may well be a “lovely person”, both her work to date and her comments on this occasion, lend further support to the existence of a feminist mind-set characterised by:

  • a belief that the views of those speaking up for the rights of men and boys are unworthy of even the most superficial consideration
  • a belief that anyone who challenges feminist beliefs and/or champions the rights of men/boys is not only anti-feminist but also a misogynist
  • a lack of awareness of the male perspective on many, if not most, gender-related matters

How shall we ever move beyond this impasse and engage in an informed and constructive manner whilst feminists remain blissfully unaware of the male perspective, and react with visceral disgust and censorship upon encountering the views of non-feminists?

Is anyone else starting to get the feeling that in just a few year’s time western society will look back on 3rd wave feminism in a similar manner to that which we now look back on the hippie era? As something akin to a Dagwood Dog … a sliver of substance embalmed in a voluminous barf-inducing batter of self-indulgence and narcissism.

dagwood dog

Happy New Year.

Regarding the notion of ‘ironic misandry’

August 2014 saw the publication of a number of articles discussing an unfortunate development in the gender debate that has been labelled ‘ironic misandry’.

Misandry is, of course, the irrational fear and loathing of men. These articles spawned the #MaleTears hashtag on Twitter, as well as the production and marketing of a range of products on the theme, such as coffee mugs and t-shirts.

The Rise of the Ironic Man Hater by Amanda Hess (8 August 2014)
Me and my #MaleTears: Facing the consequences of ironic hatred by Ally Fogg (10 August 2014)
Ironic Misandry: Why Feminists Pretending to Hate Men isn’t Funny by Sarah Begley (12 August 2014)
Hating men isn’t funny, says writer who doesn’t get good jokes by Dayna Evans (12 August 2014)
Your Guide to Understanding Ironic Misandry by Clementine Ford (26 August 2014)

pennyI loathe the concept of ironic misandry and see it as yet another symptom of an ideology that has gone seriously off the rails. Here’s why:

1. Ironic misandry is entirely at odds with the credo of ‘do unto others’

According to Wikipedia, “the Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity is a maxim, ethical code or morality that essentially states either of the following:

  • One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself
  • One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated

This concept describes a reciprocal, or two-way, relationship between one’s self and others that involves both sides equally, and in a mutual fashion.

Many of us think of ‘do unto others’ as being a Christian credo, but the same or similar phrase is common to many religions and cultures across history. That’s no accident. ‘Do unto others’ is a noble and eminently sound ideal that would be understood and supported by most reasonable people.

Ironic misandry runs contrary to how I want to treat others or be treated myself. Ironic misandry does not represent how I want my friends and family to be treated, and I don’t think it’s how most women want their male friends or family members to be treated. And don’t even try to suggest that mocking men is different because … patriarchy.

And in terms of the community generally, how would most women would react were this concept to be turned back onto them in the form of ‘ironic misogyny’? But more on that later.

 2. Ironic misandry isn’t ironic

The definition of ‘irony’ is:

  • the expression of one’s meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.
  • a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result.

But the indisputable fact is that real life feminists don’t believe or act in the opposite manner, i.e. treat men in a loving and respectful manner. Look at my posts on feminism, feminist anger, and feminist censorship for examples of what feminists say about men and how they treat them. Heck, just look at comments by Clementine Ford in her paper listed above, or Samantha Allen in this article.

Clementine Ford describes the “I bathe in male tears” logo and associated paraphernalia as “one glorious phrase and a handful of beautiful associated memes“. She goes on to state that “images such as the above pillory the buffoonery of the MRA movement while giving increasingly stressed out and undermined women a means of laughing at the enemy.”

valentiSo despite the fact that feminists are always telling us how they don’t hate men, Clementine has no qualms about referring to us as “the enemy“. (Oh I get it, just joking, right?)

Ironic misandry isn’t rocking the boat with regards to the status quo – it’s reinforcing it.

The proponents of ironic misandry consider it first and foremost a humorous invention. I beg to differ. As would, I would suggest, most mature adults concerned about social justice and the welfare of men and boys. In fact pretty much anyone with an ounce of empathy, a conscience, and a brain in their head. Either way, you can’t change sexist bigotry into something else just by claiming it is funny. As they say, “a monkey in silk is a monkey no less“.

Regardless of the selective blindness of feminists, many men and boys are suffering and their tears are very real. For example, we have just experienced the suicide of comic genius Robin Williams, at a time when the suicide rate for men is substantially greater than for women. Ditto for homelessness, etc.

3. Ironic misandry erodes mutual respect between the genders

Ironic misandry removes even further respect between the genders, when mutual respect is an essential ingredient in moving onwards and upwards with the gender debate. We need to be doing everything we can to build respect not eroding it further. Ironic misandry and other feminist devices like it will condemn us to many more years of lobbing grenades from trench to trench instead of working together to address a multitude of issues of shared concern.

Given that that the original ‘Slate’ article has been addressed by others, I’ll conclude this post with some comments in relation to the paper by Clementine Ford which I found to be particularly noisome:

MRAs will have you believe that misandry is:
a) rampant within the feminist community and
b) capable of causing equal if not greater harm to men than millennia of oppression and disadvantage could ever possibly do to women.

As I indicated earlier misandry IS rampant within the feminist community, as is feminist denial about that fact. I challenge you to assume a male identity and go online and try to post reasonable comments in debates regarding gender, and see how you are treated. How you are are routinely abused. How your posts are removed. How often you are banned, excluded, denied a voice.

Oh, and by the way Clementine, didn’t you/your editor close your article to comments so very quickly once the expected support failed to materialise? Let’s see what reader Jane was able to contribute before the shutters came down on your sideshow:

Baffled to why teenage girls don’t describe themselves as feminists? Re-read this article and imagine yourself as a teenage girl looking for relevance to her life. Instead of a reasoned argument, inspiration or anything that might be impacting her now or in the future, Clem “click-bait” Ford delivers a short rant on why it’s fun to ridicule certain people on the internet. Sure it might be a “release valve” to Ford who must have to deal with some crazy nutters on the internet but if this is the only article they read on feminism this week while asking, “Am I a feminist?” then I can understand why many, a few or even one young woman might reply, “If this is feminism, then no.”

Feminists just love to exaggerate the position of MRA with assertions like “MRA claim that men are more oppressed than women”, “MRA would have you believe that everything bad that happens to men is because of women”, and so on, and on. Can Clementine point us towards even one reference where MRA have stated that misandry can cause more harm than all the oppression and disadvantage ever experienced by women? Of course, she can’t – because no MRA ever made such a statement.

“Misogyny and misandry are treated by MRAs as interchangeable things, with the latter being widely viewed as ‘just as bad, if not worse’.” 

No, MRA treat these as two distinct things. The fact that some MRA might consider ‘misandry’ to be worse, is due only to the level of denial and hypocrisy within the feminist movement (regarding their inherent misandry), and the resultant chasm between how feminists demand to be treated and how they treat others.

“Feminism seeks to dismantle the patriarchy, thus liberating both women and men from its suffocating clutches.”

OK, Clementine, please provide some examples of feminism “liberating” men from anything.

“Humour is a vital tool for feminists lest we lose our marbles completely when dealing with the irrational and factually incorrect bleatings of people who, among other things, argue that sexual violence statistics have been made up by feminist run government agencies to oppress man’s sexual nature.”

Clementine, some examples please of statements made by MRA that are “factually incorrect”, or where MRA have claimed that sexual violence statistics were made up … “to oppress man’s sexual nature”. MRA have highlighted inaccuracies and distortions within statistics related to domestic violence, sexual assault, and other issues. I invite you to examine and comment upon the many examples that are provided in my blog posts on these topics. MRA raise these concerns only in the interest of enabling informed public debate based on a balanced and accurate portrayal of these important social issues.

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4. Gender reversal: What happens when a man attempts ironic misogyny?

In 2010 Paul Elam published an article entitled ‘October is the 5th annual Bash a Violent Bitch Month‘ in response to an earlier article in the feminist journal ‘Jezebel’. Although Paul has always asserted his article was satirical, years later it is still cited by feminists as proof of the alleged hideous misogyny of the men’s rights movement. A well-written discussion of Paul’s article can be found here.

In early 2016, Daryush ‘Roosh’ Valizadeh hit the headlines across the world when it was reported that he supported the legalisation of rape. This is what he actually wrote. Roosh’s article is explained further in ‘What Roosh’s satire exposed about modern-day socialism’.

Did feminists extend the same patience and understanding towards Paul’s or Roosh’s ironic offerings, to which they themselves felt entitled? Absolutely not, and in Roosh’s case both he and his supporters were subjected to a global campaign of harassment and threats of violence. Yes, the very same behaviour that feminists angrily assert that men oppress women with. Anyway read both this article and this one, and you can form your own view.

Moving forward to June 2016, and Australian TV personality Eddie McGuire chose to offer up a little of his own brand of irony. Team feminism went ballistic. And on and on they went:

I refuse to date men who like footy, by Koraly Dimitriadis (13 July 2016)
Time to call BS on the ‘just jokes’ defence, by Chris Bath (28 June 2016)
There can be a fine line between humour and menace in blokes banter, by David Penberthy (26 June 2016) Male self-loathing tosh (**Then read a good rebuttal by Mark Dent here**)
This is what happens when you call out sexism in Australia (25 June 2016)
Police: Don’t take McGuire’s comments lightly (23 June 2016)

And finally,  Miranda Devine’s sensible comments on the matter here

See also:

The evidence is mounting – a man’s place is in the home (4 November 2017) I don’t see the humour here but the author, Hadley Freeman, claims it’s satire:

Hadley’s article was very similar to this 27 October 2017 article in Slate.com

In this article Irish feminists reject the notion of misandry (October 2017)

“It is impossible to have an “ingrained prejudice” against men when we live in a world made by men for men. In a patriarchal society, the idea of men who are oppressed by virtue of their gender could never be anything but a joke.

Clementine Ford: This is the personal price I pay for speaking out online (13 July 2017) Such a martyr to the cause of misandry. And “a message that was quite clearly withering satire” Oh yes. Clearly. Because vagina.

Men shouldn’t get offended by people saying that “men are trash”  (12 July 2017) Reddit discussion thread

Michelle Carter found guilty by judge in text message suicide case (16 June 2017) USA

Why you should think twice before laughing at that rape joke online (8 June 2017) Clementine Ford rails against “dark humour” – now that’s ironic

I am so sick of people acting like “misandry” is equivalent to misogyny (1 June 2017) These feminists won’t even concede that misandry is a thing.

Forget your PC nonsense, this hormone needs to be banned from workplaces (29 May 2017)

Bad Girls Advice members call for the group to be shut down after posts made fun of terror attack (24 May 2017) In this case, not so much ‘ironic misandry’ as ‘ironic misanthropy’

‘Anti-feminism’ posters at American University investigated as a ‘hate crime’ (10 March 2017)

The one question I’d like to ask those who defend Wicked Campers’ vile ‘humour’ by Clementine Ford (19 February 2017)

Woman urges people to ‘murder all male babies’ (24 January 2017)

Women kicking balls, I’d like to see that (22 January 2017) New Australian women’s football ad campaign

Hwages: Music clip sparks debate, celebration in Saudi Arabia (5 January 2017)

#KillAllMen: A feminist play at Australia’s National Institute Dramatic Art (October 2016) as discussed in this blog post

“Eight women create an internet utopia where they discuss the most intimate details of their lives, the most righteous, and the most hilarious. Dating, camming, work, love, and how to be an out and proud feminist. But when one of them disappears after being attacked everything changes. #KillAllMen suddenly moves from joke to reality.”

Feminists treat men badly. It’s bad for feminism, by Cathy Young (30 June 2016)

Now this IS ironic (25 May 2016) USA

Oscar-winning actress Emma Thompson’s diversity solution: ‘Kill’ all the old white men (13 February 2016) UK

Men: Here are ten perfect holiday gifts for the feminist in your life (21 December 2015) So a Masters in Gender Studies qualifies someone to write articles like this … impressive

The Year in Male Tears (21 December 2015) and related reddit discussion thread

Some people sadly missed the point about #MasculinitySoFragile (24 September 2015) with related reddit discussion thread here

Hateful Guardian writer Julie Bindel proposes Feminazi concentration camps for all men (5 September 2015) Further good paper on this issue here (The Other McCain)

Ironic Misandry Claims Its First Victim, by Amanda Hess (22 May 2015) and here is other side of this story

The irony of ironic misandry (13 May 2015)

‘Rape prevention tips’ go viral. Upset men (23 March 2015)

29 Perfect Accessories For All Women Who Don’t Give A F*ck (22 March 2015)

And of course it’s definitely NOT funny should some men attempt to start their own campaign with a similarly whimsical theme (16 March 2015)

Feminists are bad comedians (15 March 2015)

http://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction/comments/2d0wax/tw_not_tumblr_men_that_dont_laugh_at_ironic/ (the disscussion thread from which the discussion thread extract shown above was sourced)

No, we don’t literally want to ban men. But 2014 was the year women got even (16 December 2014)

Samantha Allen explains why she hates men (7 November 2014) An example of not-so-ironic misandry

Deprogramming women’s hatred of men (10 September 2014)

The ironical irony of ironic misandry (4 September 2014)

Clementine cashes in (12 September 2013)

Clementine Ford on “those accusations” and what motivates her activism (22 August 2014)

Clementine Ford calling fellow feminists stupid (8 May 2012)

More bleating from Clementine Ford by Greg Canning (3 June 2012)

Down under news roundup by Greg Canning (14 September 2013) Refer para.6

The Misandry Choir by Andy Bob (31 December 2012)

misandry

godot