On sugar-daddies, sugar-mummies and sugar-babies

You may well have noticed an abundance of articles in the mainstream media about personal commercial arrangements known as a sugar-daddy relationship. Indeed some media outlets such as news.com.au run stories on this subject, or similar themes, every couple of weeks … see recent examples here and here and here and here.

Previously I included related discussion/references within my blog posts on ‘Privilege, Respect and Entitlement‘ and/or on ‘Prostitution‘.

Today however I was prompted to create a post solely on this topic after reading a feminist journalist’s interpretation of the sugar-daddy phenomenon:

Why is a ‘sugar daddy’ funded education being sold as empowering to women?

Kasey Edwards doesn’t think that sugar-daddy arrangements are a bad idea because they are, you know, wrong. It’s not because they involve women debasing themselves via voluntarily entering into a parasite/host relationship. And it’s not because these women aren’t walking out into the world standing on their own two, empowered, feet.

No, such arrangements are a bad idea because the women involved might be held in some way (shudder) accountable if exposed. It was suggested that former sugar-daddies would blackmail their babies as “there’s seemingly no downside for powerful men who have sexual arrangements with less powerful women“. (Gee, I bet there would be more than a few ‘powerful’ men who would disagree with that assessment of where most of the risk lies)

The cost of exposure could be either tangible (reduced employment opportunity), or more intangible (slut-shaming). Of course, both of these forms of chastisement might be imposed by other women – especially in the latter case.

Oh, and sugar-baby arrangements are also a bad idea because Kasey sees them as a “cynical abuse of male power“.

Needless to say, no mention was made of the fact that wealthy women procure men/boys in a similar manner. Which would kind of make it more of a wealth thing, rather than a gender thing.

Nevertheless, the likely feminist defence there would be that that doesn’t count, a ‘rare aberration’ yada yada, borne from ‘internalised misogyny’ yada yada, and being a ‘justifiable push-back against male oppression’ yada yada.

What follows now is a selection of articles and perspectives on this topic. There are also a couple of sources dealing with a somewhat related practice known as ‘rinsing‘.

Mother encouraged her teenage daughter to have sex with a ‘sugar daddy’ so they could both pay for cosmetic surgery (9 April 2019)

Belgians charge CEO recruiting ‘Sugar Babies’ with ‘Incitement to Debauchery’ (8 April 2019) OK, cool even, for the girls doing it but men stay out of it!

University of B.C. ranked 7th for sugar baby arrangements in 2018 (12 March 2019)

Unusual way a single mum earns more than $130k a year‘ (18 February 2019) Oh look, it’s news.com.au promoting another variety of ‘hooking lite’ commonly known as the ‘Insta-THOT’

‘You do have sex, but it’s not expected’: Monash student earns $50,000 as a ‘sugar baby’ (9 February 2019). Oh look, it’s news.com.au’s fortnightly sugar-baby theme article. Again.

Single mom facing crippling debt realizes she can make bank by charging men to date her (January 2019)

Woman earns $104k a year working just 16 hours each week (14 September 2018) Not sugar-babies but yet another version of Hooking Lite

Growing Trend Of Older Women Becoming ‘Sugar Mamas’ For Young Migrants (28 July 2017)

My Sugar Daddy Pays Me $12,000 A Month — & Marriage Is On The Table (1 June 2017) USA

Inside the life of a feminist sugar baby, by Roisin Lanigan  (21 March 2017)

Sugar Babies: 100,000 Aussie students have signed up to find a sugar daddy (2 February 2017) It’s ironic that pro-feminist news.com.au frequently runs articles on sugar-babies, sending a poor message to young men and women alike. Still, as long as news.com.au gets lots of clicks catering to vicarious thrills, it’s all good right?

Racketeering Refugees: What the Million Marching Pussyhatters Really Want? (28 January 2017)

Rise of the sugar mummies: Led by a host of celebrities, more and more older women are dating younger men (25 January 2017)

Former Beauty Queen Lives A Life Of Luxury By ‘Working’ As A Sugar Baby (6 January 2017)

“Men are supposed to be caregivers and take care of women”

Jilted lover, 42, sues her 86-year-old ‘sugar daddy’ for $1.5M claiming that he said he would provide for her ‘for the rest of her life’. Buhl has moved on to another girlfriend, Zahradnikova claims she’s still owed $1.5million in unpaid wages. How low can you go! Reddit mens rights discussion thread and linked article

Lavish lifestyle of sugar baby Simone Toon (4 November 2016)

‘European Sugar Mamas’ – Women sex tourists in Kenya (29 July 2016) Reddit discussion thread

Daddies, “Dates,” and the Girlfriend Experience: Welcome to the New Prostitution Economy (7 July 2016)

‘You don’t have to give him anything’: Inside the life of a $75,000-a-year sugar baby (1 February 2016) Australia

Monica Lynn travelled the world for free by getting her dates to pay for it (2 January 2016)

The art of ‘rinsing’ landed these sisters $160,000 worth of gifts (27 November 2015)

Sugar Babies: Controversial trend taking off online (21 July 2015) Mainstream media at it again: Content to promote parasitism/prostitution as a legitimate lifestyle choice #racetothebottom

Where the sugar babies are (15 January 2015)

Sex, lies and ‘rinsing’ guys – Youtube video – Just don’t call them prostitutes

How to date older rich men for cash and prizes, avoid having sex with them and still imagine YOU are the exploited victim (18 December 2013)

Len & The Lamprey: The other side to the issue of financial abuse

I have been thinking of writing a post on this issue for some time, but was finally spurred into action after reading an article entitled ‘The financial abuse that affects 2 million Australian women‘, by Bianca Hartge-Hazelman. Bianca is the Founder & Chief Executive Officer of Financy, a finance publication for women. Bianca informs us that:

“Research indicates that financial abuse, at the hands of one partner over another in intimate relationships, is widespread and common in Australia.”

“Financial abuse is a form of domestic violence which each year costs the economy $15.6 billion, according to the National Council to Reduce Violence against Women and their Children (NCRVWC).”

So how many men are also subject to financial abuse at the hands of their partners? We don’t know as Bianca says nothing whatsoever about *that* side of the equation. Bianca’s article is not unusual in this regard, given that most articles on financial abuse ignore financial abuse perpetrated by women. Some Australian examples include ‘Gloves off as the abused take control‘ (18 August 2015), ‘He could check everything I bought‘ (6 July 2019), and ‘How financial abuse left one woman $300,000 in debt‘. And finally, here’s one from the U.K.

I could spend hours hunting for relevant statistics, but what’s the point when feminists are invariably nonplussed when confronted with facts anyway. Instead I thought I would take a different tack and recount to you the experiences of a male friend of mine. Let’s call him ‘Len’, and let’s call his ex-wife ‘The Lamprey‘ (or TL for short).

Lamprey-09-Doug-Owen

Len is one of the countless men who have been – and still are being – subjected to financial abuse by women they love, or once loved. His financial exploitation remains ongoing, although the worst is certainly over. He loves his kids, and with a shared custody arrangement in place Len has no choice but to remain in fairly close contact with his ex.

And no, I can assure you that I am not Len, but I do know him well enough to guarantee the accuracy of this account.

Len worked hard and accumulated assets. Although only in his thirties at the time he met his future wife, he was on the way to securing the ability to retire in his 40’s. Anyway they met and fell in love, and moved in together. A little later they married and were subsequently blessed with two youngsters.

The Lamprey had already trained as a teacher and worked in that profession for about six months before latching onto Len. I think she had also done a very limited amount of modeling work. To my knowledge she hasn’t worked another day since the time she moved in with Len.

Whilst living with Len, TL *chose* not to work. AFAIK there was no pressure from Len either way. Len paid for domestic help (i.e. cleaner, nanny, etc), which was just as well given her aversion to grocery shopping and housework. She also sent the kids out to child care at the first opportunity. How lucky that TL had chosen a husband who didn’t mind cooking. So, you might be asking, what did she do with her time?

The Lamprey loved to spend Len’s money. She went out for long lunches with friends at expensive cafes, she went shopping for clothes, and sometimes she took herself to stay at (you guessed it) expensive health spa resorts.

One of TL’s less endearing habits was waiting for Len to come home from work and then – as he began cooking/helping kids with homework/etc, she would say “Oh, I might go and have a shower now“, not to be seen again until dinner was on the table.

All the time Len doted on his wife and kids. He didn’t fool around with other women despite having ample opportunity to do so. They occasionally quarrelled on the few occasions when Len raised the issue of TL’s selfishness and profligate spending, but he certainly was never abusive towards her. Mostly he just let it pass.

Len bought some land in a prestige location and set about building the house of his dreams. It was a long, tiring and costly process. When it was finally finished (after about 2 years) he then, with the now enthusiastic help of TL, set about furnishing it.

By some strange quirk or coincidence, soon after they moved into the new house, TL announced that she no longer loved Len and asked when he could move out. TL had already briefed a lawyer and went straight into ‘attack mode’ to get the most generous settlement achievable. Len was completely blind-sided. He refused to move out so TL rented an apartment – at Len’s expense of course.

As reality set in Len was heartbroken. He tried hard to get TL to attend counselling etc, but she was lukewarm on that idea. Upon realising she had little or no intention of continuing their marriage, and with the added stress of parenting, work and legal proceedings, Len descended into depression and required counselling and medication. His friends and family were worried about both his physical health and state of mind, and incredibly angry about TL’s behaviour.

Allow me to illustrate. On one occasion TL came to collect the children from Len’s house. Len was so ill that he had called an ambulance. TL could not even be bothered to wait with Len to ensure he was OK until the ambulance arrived.

Let’s halt at this point to consider what TL added and subtracted from their 6-7 years of marriage. On the plus side TL contributed two children and companionship for Len.

On the negative side, TL contributed not one dollar to the household budget, did the barest minimum of housework, and when-ever possible farmed the kids out to commercial childcare providers, or to the care of her husband or extended family.

The Lamprey extracted all her very considerable living expenses, 5 star holidays, her divorce-related legal expenses, a large proportion of Len’s assets, and spousal support for 12 months. Len asked TL if he could delay payment of her ‘share’ of the marital home (his dream house) as the real estate market had crashed, and he would have to sell it at a fire-sale price. No, she didn’t care, she wanted ‘her’ money immediately.

I wonder how much of Len’s money, obtained by TL thanks to our outdated and gynocentric legal system, will be preserved for their childrens’ future and how much has already been squandered?

And you know what? Just before her spousal support payments were due to terminate TL had the temerity to ask Len if he could keep the payments going for a while longer. She needed to finish her yoga course before she could earn an income – she said she planned to make a career as an instructor. Thank goodness Len trod on that fabulous idea.

Not long after that, TL moved in with another guy. She married him but wouldn’t give him the kids that he wanted so they divorced not long after. Then she moved in with some retired sugar-daddy type character. So from one sponsor to the next as the fun and/or funds started running out.

Since the divorce TL has failed to meet her responsibilities to provide for 50% child support with respect to both the time she devotes to the children, and to her financial contribution to their support. Len has let her off the hook for the sake of the children, in order to preserve some degree of harmony. He rationalises the situation by saying that if they were still married he would be paying 100% of the kids expenses anyway. Throughout the process Len has been patient and gracious to a fault.

Does TL feel in any way guilty about her behaviour? I haven’t asked her, but I don’t believe so. Hell no. Her attitude, which I suspect is quite common, is that she only took what she had a right to take under the law. So that’s gotta be fair, right? Of course, nil consideration given as to whether the law/family court itself is actually fair. Well, TL et al, it’s not.

Is this not financial abuse? Damn right it is. Am I saying that most divorces are like this? No, but Len’s situation is far from being a rare occurrence in my experience. In fact I don’t think I would know anyone in my network of friends/family/acquaintances who has not seen this pattern play out several times within their own circles. Can it be any wonder that more and more men are reconsidering the wisdom of getting married?

Anyway that’s what can happen when couples divorce (or simply separate in the case of de-facto couples). But the extent of financial abuse of men by women goes well beyond divorce. Consider:

  • ‘Sperm-jacking’, where a woman impregnates herself with sperm recovered from a condom, etc, and then demands child support (refer for example to this item)
  • Intentional pregnancy in the hope of trapping a man in marriage and/or having a child who is financially supported by another (thanks to mandatory child support till age 18) that occurs after a woman falsely tells a man that she is using contraception
  • False claims of pregnancy from women seeking ‘payment’ of claimed abortion expenses and/or alleged child support (where for example they live in another country and are less likely to be trapped in a lie).
  • Situations where a man or boy is raped by a woman, again resulting in mandatory child support (one legal precedent).
  • Paternity fraud where a man is falsely told he is the father and pays child support. There are many instances where men have become suspicious and arranged DNA testing, found they were not the parent, but the court still subsequently ordered that they continue paying child support nonetheless.

In a growing number of cases we shall also see men subject to the same type of financial abuse traditionally experienced by some women. This is the result of the growing number of couples where the man assumes the role of house-husband. This decision may be voluntary or it may result from his inability to secure employment in a work environment that is increasingly favouring women. In such cases the male partner may have either a much lower income than his wife, or no income at all.

I am not surprised that these issues were not addressed in an article on domestic financial abuse by a feminist, for none of them are even blips on the feminist radar screen. And this despite the fact that they can be life-changing events in a man’s life, and in some cases life-ending events. Let that sink in, and ponder on it the next time you hear a feminist crowing about how men should respect women and do more to support them and their causes.

As for me, I cannot and will not respect narcissistic scroungers of either gender.

See also:

Woman left $5,000 tip for server to get back at boyfriend (3 July 2019) USA

My ex left me with 26,000 British pounds of debt (30 April 2019)

Mum received more than $83,000 in donations after ‘pretending to have cancer’ (9 April 2019) UK

The Internet reacts to Cardi B saying she used to drug and rob men (25 March 2019)

Men finally admit to being bullied by their exes over child access, money and love (19 March 2019)

Arizona woman can use fertilized embryos to get pregnant without ex’s consent, court rules (19 March 2019) USA. And *he* has to pay

Men becoming “increasing victims” of coercive control, legal experts claim  (9 March 2019)

When male rape victims are accountable for child support (21 February 2019)

Thousands of dads are left in shock as DIY paternity tests soar (15 January 2019) UK

Domestic Violence and Immigration Fraud Part 2 (20 November 2018) Video

Love-rat faked cancer to dupe three Tinder dates (16 October 2018)

Americans Conned into Marrying Immigrants for Green Cards (14 July 2018)

#MeToo has rich men wary of extortion (8 March 2019)

Three charts on: how emotional and economic abuse go hand-in-hand (20 November 2017) See also reader’s comment by Chris Lloyd illustrating similarity in rates of male/female abuse.

Vancouver women’s shelter sues the victim (6 November 2017)

Millionaires Reduced to Under $10 by Divorce (19 October 2017) A Stefan Molyneux video

Hotshot Wall Street banker says jilted lover drove his Benz into pool (15 October 2017) Men routinely criticized for treating women as sex objects, but women can treat men as success objects/ATM’s with minimal recriminations.

How feminism destroys families (12 September 2017) UK

LIZ JONES: Women NEED diamond rings – it makes hitting men easier (21 August 2017) Liz thinks that both physical abuse and financial abuse of men is OK/justified

Family trusts often cause more harm than good (26 July 2017) Author tut-tuts at men who establish legal structures to protect assets in the event of divorce, or in his words “to avoid the fair division of property after a relationship breakdown”. Because the law is always fair, right? And if someone has to be harmed then it might was well be the husband.

‘My wife didn’t tell me she was trying to get pregnant’ (22 July 2017)

Family finances and family violence: the conversation we need to start, by Moo Baulch (27 June 2017) Hard-line feminist and key figure in Domestic Violence Industry acknowledges male victims – will wonders never cease?

In May 2017 much media attention was given to a practice labelled as ‘stealthing’, whereby men remove their condom during sex without their partners consent (example). Few articles even made passing reference to the fact that women perpetrate a similar act when they falsely claim to be using contraceptives in order to ‘trap’ a man in a relationship and/or secure an income stream via child support payments. This issue was addressed in this article, and then in a follow-up article by Martin Daubney. See also this Reddit discussion thread.

Bell v Landry: paying your wife an ‘allowance’ is an insult (10 May 2017) One-sided wisdom from misandrist journalist, Jenna Price.

Karl Stefanovic and Cassandra Thorburn complete carving-up of assets six months after announcement (6 May 2017) Gee, it costs a guy a lot to keep in touch with his kids nowadays, huh? Another divorce-rape

Man killed himself after being conned out of his life savings by fake girlfriend he met on dating site (5 May 2017) UK

Prostitute allegedly conspired with two male friends to rob cashed-up miner, but inadvertently killed him (4 May 2017)

Millionaire tycoon loses legal fight to stop wife who cheated on him walking away with half of his £150 million fortune (12 April 2017) with related Reddit discussion thread here

When having separate bank accounts is the opposite of independence, by Polly Dunning (21 March 2017) Australia. And again, because only men financially abuse and humiliate their partners.

The biggest financial risk for women today? Embarking on a relationship (19 March 2017) One can always rely on The Guardian to provide an alternative and suitably distorted view of reality.

Unwanted child is no grounds to sue mum for lying about taking the pill: court (4 March 2017)

Now it’s men who are the victims of lonely hearts fraudsters (8 March 2017) UK

Revealed: the hidden problem of economic abuse in Australia (2 March 2017) This article provides corresponding figures for abuse of men, although the definition employed excludes many of the variations of abuse noted in this post.

Economic abuse a relatively unknown form of domestic violence (2 March 2017)

‘Getting divorced? Go after his pension’ (25 February 2017)

Men outraged over paying child support for kids who are not theirs (23 February 2017) USA

Conwoman Sanaa Derbas jailed for dating scam targeting lonely men (23 February 2017)

A website dedicated to trapping men with falsified pregnancy documents, sonograms, test results, etc. is ruthlessly investigated … many male victims interviewed (13 February 2017) Reddit discussion thread with linked video.

‘Reliable honest’ husband who handed his wife, 51, all of his ready cash in a divorce 15 years ago is told he must up her maintenance after she blows the lot on ‘unwise property investments’ (7 February 2017) UK

Chilling confession of ‘Sextortion Queen’ in Philippines (24 January 2017)

‘He took away my money and my freedom’: Financial abuse is just as destructive as physical abuse but often goes unnoticed (22 January 2017) UK

Very much focused on the abuse of women, but at least this article notes that 40% of victims (in the cited study) were male.

When care becomes control – financial abuse cuts across cultures (17 January 2017) Why bother surveying men when financial abuse only happens to women, right?

Nearly a third of parents unwilling to leave estate to their children for fear they will lose it in divorce (4 January 2017)

Nearly half of men who take paternity test are not the real father (3 January 2017) UK

The boss and the secretary: Five reasons powerful men get beautiful girls (20 December 2016) Australia. And another article promoting the notion that only men exploit women.

Woman Claims She’s Paying College Bills With Positive Pregnancy Tests (19 December 2016) USA

This year the most attractive men in the world will lose hundreds of millions to their divorcing wives: Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt and now George Clooney too: his wife is ready to get at least $ 300 million dollars from him (11 December 2016) Reddit men’s rights discussion thread

Mum charged with faking DNA tests to con ex into thinking he was baby’s dad (8 December 2016) UK

Teacher who started a £30m-a-year fashion empire from his garage fights to stop his ex-wife getting £2.7m of his fortune – more than a decade after they split (29 November 2016)

Domestic violence also has an economic penalty – we need to tackle it (29 November 2016) and Financial abuse: The hidden form of domestic violence affecting millions (25 November 2016) Two more articles re: financial abuse that doesn’t even hint that men can also be victimised in this manner

Banks enhance support for family and domestic violence victims (22 November 2016) Australia. The guidelines seem to be reasonably gender-neutral, although I wonder to what extent they will be as applied in real-life. There is also no mention made of the reality of false accusations being made as a form of abuse.

Woman asks her 20 boyfriends to buy her a new iPhone, then sells them all for house deposit (2 November 2016)

Mariah Carey and James Packer split gets nasty with name calling, $50M demand (29 October 2016)

Doctor sues gay friend for child support, 16 years after he first donated sperm to her (27 October 2016)

Sumner Redstone Sues Ex-Companions for Elder Abuse to Reclaim $150M in Gifts (25 October 2016)

Jets, vacation homes, Botox all factors in cancer center founder’s divorce (21 October 2016) USA

Males Out of Work – NYT Does Not Get It (18 October 2016) It’s worth considering that whilst there exists this backdrop of financial abuse, the financial well-being of many men is declining considerably rendering them less able to rebound after losses are incurred.

Marital wallet rape is bad, m’kay? (6 October 2016)

Fake pregnancy: MGTOW (2 October 2016) Video

Blame the Patriarchy! (29 September 2016)

James tells Mariah: ‘Stop spending all my money!’ (26 September 2016)

Man wins fight against paying support for another man’s child (23 September 2016)

ShowerThought about paternity fraud (11 September 2016) Reddit discussion thread

‘I’m not paying for that’: Financial abuse is awfully common (6 September 2016)

Well at least this article acknowledges that some financial abuse of men does occur … only to minimise it by saying “While men are also affected by financial abuse, the majority of cases are women”. Hmm, sounds like so many domestic violence article doesn’t it?

Eddie the Eagle’s fallen flat on his face: Divorce reduces to ski-jump hero to living on egg sandwiches in his shed because his wife has taken £180,000 Hollywood windfall (5 September 2016)

Mum convinces husband to pay for £6,000 boob job then becomes glamour model and dumps him (1 September 2016) UK

“I pleaded with him to lend me the money and knew it would give me a new lease of life” … “I didn’t really have any desire to pay him back. If I had to choose between the boobs and him, it was an easy choice.”

[Parental rights] This is what we’re up against (BURIED in a legal advice sub) (30  August 2016) Reddit discussion thread

Berlin to Require Mums to Come Clean on ‘Milkmen’s Kids’ (29 August 2016) Then read how an Australian feminist thinks this is all about slut-shaming (no mention of the notion of fraud or men being due some modicum of respect.

Comedian Aries Spears: ‘Women … Rape men financially’ through child support demands (24 August 2016)

Sydney mum defrauded lonely men of $2 million (23 August 2016)

American Slavery: Man Paying Child Support for Another Man’s Kid (1 August 2016) USA

US man forced to pay support for a child that’s not his (30 July 2016)

And in a cruel twist, it ‘Turns Out That the Husband’s Job Is Probably the Best Predictor of Divorce‘ (28 July 2016) So those men get hammered twice

Women selling/buying positive pregnancy tests (March 2015) Youtube video

In Defense Of Gold Diggers: It’s Not Always What It Seems (17 January 2015) with related Reddit discussion thread here.

Nurse faked DNA test and pretended friend’s baby was her own to trick one-night stand walks free from prison (1 December 2014)

Relationship problems and money: Women talk about financial abuse by Prue Cameron (2014) Australia

“Financial abuse in a family violence context involves behaviours that ‘control a woman’s ability to acquire, use and maintain economic resources, threatening her economic security and potential for self-sufficiency’” (p13)

Financial abuse of men not even recognised in the definition used for this research project, which subsequently surveyed only women and made recommendations that only applied to women. This despite the fact that most or even all of the specific forms of abuse discussed, such as being dragged into and out of family court, also clearly are also experiences that also apply to men.

Man who paid child support for 22 years can’t get a refund (19 August 2014)

National Organisation of Women (USA) opposes measures that would help protect men from paternity fraud (6 July 2014)

Meet the woman who’s dating her way into meals at top Toronto restaurants (25 October 2013)

How to snag a rich man: Confessions of a gold digger (31 July 2013)

Rape victim in the USA (a boy) is sued for child support (2004) with related Reddit discussion thread here

Should paternity tests at birth be mandatory (12 February 2013) Video

Should we be doing more to expose paternity fraud? (4 September 2015) and related reddit discussion thread

Woman steals ex-boyfriends sperm, has twins, sues for child support(23 November 2011)

http://news.yahoo.com/video/man-may-jailed-not-paying-203459828.html

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/35rlw6/a_paternity_test_will_be_available_to_buy_over/

Can you make a male baby sitter pay child support?

bludge

Other posts in this blog of relevance to this issue include:

The ‘Marriage Strike’ and MGTOW
On Spousal Maintenance / Alimony
We’ve all heard of the gender ‘income gap’, but what about the ‘expense gap’?
Who pays on dates?
On recognising and supporting male victims of domestic violence

Who pays on dates?

There have been, and there continues to be, many articles written about the topic of who should meet the costs of dating or courtship. Most articles appear to be written by women, with most mocking (to varying degrees) the alleged or implied cheapness of men who dare object to paying the entire cost of a night out. Or as is more often the case, a series of nights out.

Whilst hardly a ‘life or death’ matter, this topic has special significance in that it illustrates how some traditional gender roles are aggressively retained whilst others are forcefully discarded. With the former mostly appearing to benefit women.

A number of justifications are put forward as to why one partner should pay for the other. Perhaps the most common is the suggestion that the person who makes the approach, and issues the invitation, should pay for the date. That is clearly very convenient for women given that 99 times out of 100, they are the ones being invited out.

After that the rationalisations as to why men should pay get even more ‘out there’, especially when it is a feminist at the keyboard. Consider for example, ‘I Let Him Pay for Dinner – Am I a Bad Feminist?‘ by Suzanna Weiss (5 July 2016)

My own position is that if the costs of dates aren’t shared, or if partners aren’t treated on alternate dates, then it is free-loading no matter how you dress it up. And if the first date is such that you know there won’t be a second one, then you should definitely split the bill. Forget ideology, it’s just the decent thing to do.

Further relevant articles include:

Forget the booty call, the foodie call is the new dating (out)rage (6 July 2019)

A third of women only date men because of the free food: study (21 June 2019) USA

Beware of ‘foodie call’ dates who are just in it for a free meal (30 August 2017) USA

Women forced to pay for dates (9 March 2017) Video

How is it okay for a stranger to pay for your first-date dinner because he’s a man? (27 January 2017)

6 Things a Feminist Woman Who Dates Men Should Look For on a First Date: Validate his every political and social view conforms to those you require. Offer to pay and think of him as cheap if he accepts (27 October 2016) Reddit mensrights discussion thread and linked article.

A Women’s Advantage (2016) Concerns research into OKCupid users, not just regarding who pays on dates but also courtship protocols generally.

Guy texts girl demanding she pay him back after he bought her a drink at a bar (12 September 2016)

“I’ll be more cautious who I take free drinks from in the future!” Free?

Woman Says She Was Left With $163 Tab After Man She Met On Dating Site Dined, Then Dashed (3 August 2016) with related Reddit discussion thread here

“Operation: No Pay May”: A Houston Woman Attempts 31 Dates in 31 Days (31 May 2016) with related Reddit discussion thread here

The new economics of dating: Do men still need to pay? (24 May 2016) Reddit discussion thread and linked article

For men, finding love is still more costly (16 May 2016)

I said no to a second date so he asked for a $40 refund (11 May 2016)

That’s rich… women decline to date men who earn less – however good looking (3 February 2016) UK

Shock horror! A man feels I should pay my own way on dates. “I feel this is a dealbreaker.” Welcome to feminism (9 November 2015) Reddit mensrights discussion thread

Attention, straight men dating women: Here’s why they still — yes, still — expect you to pick up the check (28 August 2015) with related reddit discussion thread here

Paying while dating: meet the men who pick up the check (and those who don’t) (28 August 2015) and being in The Guardian we just know which team they’ll be rooting for.

valentines-spend-ecommerce

Two Strong INDEPENDENT Feminists demand men pay for dates (18 August 2015) Video and related reddit discussion thread (Quote: “I understand most women don’t want to be used as sex objects. Maybe they should stop looking at men as success objects“)

Ladies, It’s Now Your Turn to Pay On the First Date (9 January 2015)

Cha-Ching! Guess who spends the most in love? (February 2015)

Valentine’s Day spending driven by single men in search for love (12 February 2015)

Why women should never go halves on a date (27 November 2014)

Why I’d never be with a man who always pays the bill‘ (28 September 2014) Article unconvincing but see readers comments

It’s 2014: Why are men still paying for first dates? (18 September 2014) and here’s the feminist perspective on that issue (though note that not all readers agreed with her assessment)

Helena Andrews explains why men should always pay for dinner by Janet Bloomfield (9 September 2013)

Should I Pay for a Date Simply Because I Am the Stud? (6 September 2013)

I just made a woman pay for her own food, her reactions were interesting (19 November 2014) Reddit mensrights discussion thread

Valentines Day, by the numbers (14 February 2013)

Almost all of the articles on this subject in the mainstream media focus on heterosexual couples, and are set in the context of first world western countries.

The heterosexual focus is interesting as my initial impression is that courtship costs are approached in a somewhat more egalitarian manner in gay/lesbian relationships. I have listed some articles about splitting costs & gay/lesbian dating and courtship below. If readers can suggest more and/or better references then please leave a message.

Who Should Be Paying on a Same Sex Date? (11 May 2016)

Who picks up the tab on a date between two gay people?

When two gay men (or ladies) go on a date who pays?

On Spousal Maintenance / Alimony

Much of the information in this blog post was previously included in an earlier post entitled ‘We’ve all heard of the gender ‘income gap’, but what about the ‘expense gap’?

The topic does, however, warrants its own post given that it is a significant issue in a number of regards, including:

  • alimony represents a major financial burden which impacts primarily on men
  • as the number of cases of men claiming alimony rises the divergent manner in which the media reports the issue is highly illustrative of enduring gender stereotypes
  • the debate and political machinations surrounding alimony is a prime example of the extent to which feminist organisations oppose gender equality reforms that would benefit men.

The issue is also quite topical in the United States at the moment particularly in relation to the recently quashed legal reforms in Florida.

Both the terminology and nature of spousal maintenance/alimony varies from one country to the next, and even within the same country there may be significant variation from one state to the next. The primary focus on this post is the situation in the UK, Australia and the USA.

Camille Grammer Awarded Half of Ex-Husband Kelsey Grammer’s Retirement Fund (3 November 2017) See reader’s comments

Why do most men want their wives to help their economic progress, but not ensure anything in return? (12 June 2017) This thread looks at the argument in favor of alimony.

I’m fighting my ex-wife for every person who’s been shafted by Britain’s divorce courts’ (4 June 2017) UK

Men ‘bullied’ out of generous divorce settlements by breadwinning wives (4 March 2017)

‘I’m NOT a gold digger’: The ex-wife vilified as a cold, cunning chancer after winning a huge rise in maintenance payments 15 YEARS after her divorce blasts back and says it’s all her ex’s fault (13 February 2017) UK

Divorced men doomed to life as a cash machine‘ by Martin Daubney (12 February 2017)

‘Reliable honest’ husband who handed his wife, 51, all of his ready cash in a divorce 15 years ago is told he must up her maintenance after she blows the lot on ‘unwise property investments’ (7 February 2017) UK

Fashion tycoon’s ex-wife wins £2.7m slice of his fortune more than a DECADE after they divorced as judge condemns him as a liar (26 January 2017)

Wife’s Capability To Earn No Reason To Reduce Maintenance Awarded To Her (20 January 2017) India

Custody, Child Support, and Alimony in the 50 States (2016)

Cancer center founder’s ex-wife seeks $400K/month as divorce trial opens (19 October 2016) USA

Men will only get equality in custody cases when women face some hard truths(26 August 2016) Ireland

“The family law researcher observed 493 judicial separation and divorce cases in 2010, which are ordinarily held in private. But she couldn’t find a single case where the wife was ordered to pay maintenance for children or a spouse, and had only seen the courts order joint custody in two cases.”

Don’t Blame Divorce on Money. Ask: Did the Husband Have a Job? (28 July 2016) Men, get ready for a triple whammy … employment redundancy->divorce->divorce rape/alimony (->suicide?)

Rich wives being told to get a job as judges clamp down on ‘meal ticket’ divorces – lawyers (20 July 2016) UK

Former millionaire brands UK laws unfair to men after divorce judges gave ALL his money to his ex-wife and threatened him with jail if he didn’t pay maintenance (15 July 2016)

A letter to … my wife, who won’t get a job while I work myself to death (2 July 2016) The flip side of this coin – the exploitation of many men begins long before they get divorced.

Supermodel Christina Estrada Wants Ex to Pay for Her $262 Million Lifestyle (29 June 2016) and she only gets 75 million pounds. Boo hoo! “The legal process had been “incredibly bruising and distressing,” she added.”

Father’s dying ‘wish’ voids woman’s divorce payout, say judges (11 June 2016) Australia

Are all women gold-diggers? (27 May 2016)

Johnny Depp protects $400 million fortune as he rejects Amber Heard’s request for spousal support in divorce papers (26 May 2016) No pre-nup … what were you thinking Johnny? And Amber, married only 15  months and already wealthy yet still feels justified in sticking out her paw for $50,000/month spousal support … ewww. Apparently she burns through $43,000/month (further details here). Hard on the heels of Johnny’s rejection of spousal support came Amber’s accusation of domestic violence (see here, here, and here) – but might this be a lie? Never fear, Clementine Ford knows who’s naughty and who’s nice (hint: vagina=nice). Alyssa knows he’s guilty too. So that’s at least two feminists. Jail the cad! And as for those women close to Johny speaking up in his defence – clearly, suffering from internalised misogyny.

David Hasselhoff No More Alimony!!! I Want to Retire (18 April 2016) Fair? Of course it isn’t – the word parasite springs to mind

Florida alimony profits and child custody litigation preserved by governor’s veto (16 April 2016)

Rosenblum: As times change, should alimony change, too? (25 March 2016)

Afeni Shakur And Whether Or Not Men Deserve Alimony (18 March 2016) USA

Florida Bar Association says it no longer supports alimony-reform bill it helped write (16 March 2016)

Divorcee wins 90 per cent of husband’s wealth in bitter court battle (14 March 2016) UK, with related Reddit discussion thread here. See Janet Bloomfield’s (a respected female MHRA) response to this judgement here.

Group pushes male-dominated S.C. Legislature to change permanent alimony law (1 March 2016) USA

The 11 richest women in Britain who mostly got their wealth through marriage (9 February 2016)

Family court robs men and demeans women by splitting property equally when a marriage ends (6 February 2016) Australia

Report: NJ woman sued for writing ‘bum’ and ‘loser’ on ex-spouse’s alimony checks (19 December 2015) More on this case in this discussion thread and linked article

John Cleese feels ‘free to do the things that interest him’ after paying off £12million divorce settlement to ex wife Alyce Faye Eichelberger (26 November 2015)

Breadwinning Women Are Driving Alimony Reform (18 November 2015) and related reddit discussion thread

Even though 37% of women earn more money than their husbands, only 3% of divorced men receive alimony (30 June 2015) Reddit discussion thread

Retired farmer must pay more in alimony than monthly income, Nebraska Supreme Court rules (27 June 2015)

Divorce Math: She gets 60%, plus alimony, plus “child” support, plus probably attorney fees (April 2015) Reddit mens rights discussion thread

Jason and Amanda Dufner divorce after three years of marriage (31 March 2015) Amanda gets a million a year … for what exactly?

Construction tycoon left ‘homeless’ after ex-wife wins 80% of his property in divorce (26 March 2015)

Forced to pay for a child that DNA proves isn’t his (24 March 2015)

Wife seeks more alimony over ex’s new lookalike girlfriend (20 March 2015) and related reddit mensrights discussion thread

Former hippy wins right to claim ex’s post-divorce wealth (12 March 2015) The same court ruling is also discussed in this article (15 March 2015)

Are Moms Less Likely Than Dads To Pay Child Support? (26 February 2015)

Divorced wife told to get a job and stop living off her ex-husband (23 February 2015)

Woman sues ex-husband for a share of wealth he made years after they divorced (9 December 2014)

Why Do So Few Men Get Alimony? (20 November 2014) USA

Working woman in /r/legaladvice divorcing and is horrified that she has to give part-time-working ex-husband half her assets (15 November 2014)

Ex-wife of US oil baron to appeal $1 billion divorce award (13 November 2014)

State Orders Man to Pay $30,000 in Welfare Benefits for Child Both Mother and DNA Test Say isn’t his (24 October 2014)

Deadbeat moms? Should mothers be required to pay child support? (20 April 2014) and related reddit mensrights discussion thread

Jail Becomes Home for Husband Stuck With Lifetime Alimony (27 August 2013)

Halle Berry’s Child-Support Fight: Female Breadwinners Can’t Have It Both Ways (20 October 2014)

Businessman is ordered to pay £28,500 to ex-girlfriend in landmark court ruling because he led her to believe he would look after her for life (17 October 2014)

Veteran chooses jail over giving his disability money to ex-wife (17 September 2014)

Alimony is broken – But let’s not fix it (1 September 2014)

Who’s the Daddy? (23 October 2010) and related reddit discussion thread. Paternity testing should be mandatory where child support is sought – why is this idea being opposed?

The New Art of Alimony (31 October 2009)

I just love how a “prominent family lawyer” recently emerged from the woodwork to call for new pre-nuptial laws in Britain: “Lady Deech said on Radio 4’s Sunday Programme: ‘Lots of young women these days are working, earning well, and would feel it extremely unfair if a young man who they marry and perhaps leaves them is going to take with him a sizeable chunk of what they have worked so hard for.”

Oh, extremely Baroness! Presumably you’ve silently observed countless men get fleeced over past decades, but now that some women have moved into the position of primary bread-winner in the family, it’s suddenly time to act. Oh and have a read about what happened to Ms Luckwell.

And now for a bit of male-shaming:

“Bristol’s rep David Martin slammed Meyer for seeking child support despite being a decorated member of the Marine Corps that has received the Congressional Medal of Honor. “My values are such that a real American hero doesn’t ask for child support,” said Martin.” (Source)

Now consider the gall/hypocrisy of this feminist journalist as she berates a man who obtained a court-ordered settlement upon divorce (+ related reddit discussion thread).

See also:

On spousal maintenance in Australia

Give Your Money To Women: The End Game of Capitalism (10 August 2015)

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