Those who have spent a reasonable amount of time in Thailand would have recognised a strange and intriguing dynamic between western men, western women and Thai women. It is of particular interest to yours truly as it provides an opportunity to examine – from a different perspective – the current state of play between the sexes in western countries. And it’s not a pretty sight.
What is happening is that increasing numbers of western guys, including both resident expats and tourists, are seeking Asian wives and girlfriends. This is occurring at the same time that many men are rejecting marriage entirely as discussed in this further blog post.
When this subject gets raised in an online discussion forum the same issues and the same progression of arguments tend to be represented. Alternatively, if there is a (caucasian) female moderator in the mix, the discussion thread is usually very quickly shut down.
Female contributors to these discussions accuse the men of (at best) having an ‘Asian fetish’, but more often than not as possessing one or more of the following characteristics:
- latent paedophiles attracted to the petite stature of Asian women
- socially inept losers who “couldn’t get a woman in their own countries”
- ugly, fat, smelly and drunk
- seeking a submissive slave, frightened of “strong, independent women”, and unable to cope with a partnership of equals
Female contributors invariably begin by feigning concern for the welfare of their Asian sisters, with comments about western men exploiting women of limited means and who are driven to consort with western men due only to economic imperatives. Once the men return fire, sometimes with a few barbs about issues of weight control, things turn nasty with many western women then turning on Asian women … labelling them scheming prostitutes who are only interested in ripping off western men (who deserve what they get).
Male contributors frequently reflect on their earlier unsatisfactory dealings with western women, frequently ending with costly divorce settlements. Sometimes men clarify that their attraction to Asian women is not racial objectification, but indicative of an attraction to certain personal characteristics that are more prevalent amongst women in Asian countries.
These attributes include gracefulness and femininity, loyalty, and a much reduced propensity for combativeness. Many men appreciate that women’s expectations regarding the roles of men and women is better defined and (importantly) more transparently and consistently applied.
At times interesting insights are offered by Asian women who have moved to western countries. With but a few exceptions they support the comments from western men regarding the selfishness and contempt shown by many western women (in their dealings with western men).
There are however a few exceptions whereby Asian women – invariably university students – complain of the attention that they receive (example/example/example). I suspect a factor here would often be a desire on the part of the Asian girl to allay jealousy on the part of female friends (i.e. a strategy to deal with intrasexual competition).
Discussions within feminist web sites are uniformly contemptuous towards western men with Asian partners. As an example, I came across this statement in a paper on the SPLC web site:
“The men’s movement also includes mail-order-bride shoppers, unregenerate batterers, and wannabe pickup artists who are eager to learn the secrets of “game”—the psychological tricks that supposedly make it easy to seduce women. “
Nice jibe. That article, by the way, was penned by a feminist foot-soldier by the name of Arthur Goldwag who is discussed here. And while we’re on the topic of feminist lapdogs, here’s David Futrelle with his words of overblown inanity on the subject of those men preferring foreign partners.
Yes indeed, feminists really do get quite a burr in their panties when it comes to white men partnering with women from another culture (another example). Ah, and not only are men attracted to Asian women because they are perceived to be submissive – the feminist author of this article suggests that the same motivation applies to men who partner with deaf women.
The depth of anger and bitterness felt by some feminists about a trend that they perceive as crafty western men bucking the system, is such that steps are being taken to address this ‘loophole’. There appear to be two main strategies now in train:
1. Apply progressively stronger pressure on governments in both source and destination countries to reduce the number of marriages between western men and women from Asian and/or developing countries. In particular this will involve increasing the cost and degree of difficulty associated with obtaining spouse or fiancee visas for foreign wives to achieve residency status in western countries. The argument put forward to justify this will be an alleged strong nexus between non-western partners (who will be painted alternately as either vulnerable ingenues or devious scammers) and organised crime or domestic abuse. Expect to see ‘woozles’ aplenty as well as heavy use of terms like ‘mail-order brides’, human-trafficking, and sexual servitude. (Example)
An example of existing legislation with this aim is the US ‘International Marriage Broker Regulation Act‘. See also this article and readers comments about the situation in Sweden.
In Australia, as of April 2019, men will have to pass a character test to bring their spouse into Australia and any history of domestic violence (real or alleged) will be a obstacle to visa approval. Just as allegations of abuse have become weapons for use in child custody cases, soon ex-wives may be able to make remarriage of their former spouse more costly and difficult. There’s a further article here, but still no hint as to specifically what constitutes “a history of violence”.
This August 2019 article may also put fear into men considering marriage to a foreign national, in relation to the potential for false accusations to be made against them.
Even without altering the rules, people can be discouraged from taking this marriage route simply by making the process more drawn-out and expensive. This web site states that as of January 2019 the waiting period for a partner visa (with partner offshore) was 30-46 months, after submission of all necessary paperwork.
2. Dissuade foreign women from entering into long-term relationships with western men on the basis of scare tactics, i.e. an alleged high level of personal risk to them.
An example of this can be seen in an August 2014 article in the Bangkok Post, entitled ‘Australia’s hidden abusive migrant marriages‘. This article seeks to send a strong message to Thai women that they face grave risks should they relocate to a western country. Yet typical of feminist attempts to manipulate public opinion, it is heavy on claims and very light on actual information that would put threat levels into a meaningful context. In this case the actual information provided is quite inadequate in helping women assess the actual degree of actual risk (see also readers comments).
Other related examples can be seen at One third of migrant and refugee women experience domestic violence, major survey reveals (theconversation.com) (30 June 2021), and at Thai Women Sweden, relationships with Swedish men and Thai Wives (thailovelines.com) (12 April 2012)
These types of articles/reports can be seen is several contexts, including:
- the desire of feminists to exaggerate public perception of the scale and nature of domestic violence, with a view to expanding the scale of government funding (example)
- the desire of feminists to recruit more women to feminist ideology
- intra-sexual competition on the part of Caucasian women, who are concerned at seeing Caucasian men overlook them in favor of Asian women
Further sources of information and insight regarding this theme:
Domestic and family violence and your visa (1 April 2023) Newly created regulatory mechanism affecting migrants to Australia
It’s terrorism when racism and Asian fetishisation intersect, by Cathy Ngo (22 March 2021)
Australians to undergo domestic violence check to sponsor overseas partner (13 October 2020)
Migrant women are trapped in the living hell of violent abuse (2 March 2020) Australia
Japanese model divorces husband after literally spending all his money (15 January 2020) Obviously there are some gold-diggers in every culture, so some degree of caution – by both men & women – is always desirable.
American’s immigration emergency: Their spouses could be deported or exiled if they seek green cards (20 February 2019) USA. Granted, the focus of this article is on women marrying foreign husbands, but what’s the bet that the main underlying factor is discouraging foreign women.
The ‘Path to Nowhere’ report by ANROWS based on ‘the (alleged) urgent need to overhaul migration laws to protect domestic violence victims (women in Australia on temporary visas)’ (January 2019). See related Tweet
Government data reveals US Immigration issued visas to thousands of child brides spouses (12 January 2019) Stopping underage brides? Sounds entirely reasonable, but then wait until gender-neutral and potentially critical eyes become diverted, and then the system can be derailed to suit feminist objectives.
‘Deport my wife’: Woman hits herself to ‘frame husband for domestic violence’ (3 December 2018)
Americans Conned into Marrying Immigrants for Green Cards (14 July 2018)
Tied in a knot: the Thai wives who go abroad (5 March 2017) I have great trouble believing the accuracy of these stories, let alone the implication that they represent a common pattern of events. The readers of this discussion thread seem to hold a similar opinion. Further, the women quoted in the article such as academic (Ms) Dusadee Ayuwat, appear to be of feminist orientation.
This is why I’ve lived in Japan for 12 years (11 November 2016) Discussion thread with linked video.
A woman’s view as to why men are deserting Western women for Asian women (August 2016) Reddit discussion thread with linked video
Why is a racial “fetish” looked negatively upon as racist, but not preference for other specific physical traits (such as eye color, height, etc) (7 July 2016) Reddit discussion thread
Foreign Women Are Not the Answer (NAFWALT) (9 May 2016) One would be foolish to suggest that marrying a(ny) foreign woman is a good strategy for a(ny) caucasian man dissatisfied with western women. Then again, too many are willing to rush in and forego getting to know their future partner, her family and her culture, so a reality check is probably in order.
Media attacks Yellow Fever but ignores more common White Fever (17 February 2015) Reddit mensrights discussion thread
The Myth of Yellow Fever (19 January 2015)
Feminists versus Yellow Fever by Willard Losinger (2 September 2014) Highly recommended reading
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/9972174/The-Old-Sexpats-Club-members-and-their-young-Thai-women.html#disqus_thread The article is very negative and biased, but is entirely typical of mainstream media coverage of the issue. There are, however, some very insightful readers comments. (My own comments were provided using the pseudonym ‘Notyouraveragejoe’)
Asian Women and White Men (14 September 2014)
Feminists versus mail-order brides (9 August 2014)
Thai Women Sweden, relationships with Swedish men and Thai Wives (thailovelines.com) (12 April 2012)
Why white men prefer Asian women (undated)
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/soc.culture.thai/G4grWatbzxw (“Unhappy farang girls who cant get a screw”). An extract from which reads:
I was approached by a western girl in Phuket who was obviously having a hard time with the lack of attention. She almost threw herself at me and said quietly in my ear that she and her mate were out looking to get laid. i was in the star wars nightclub at the time in patong surrounded by few hundred thai lovelies. back in England obviously i thought it would be a dream come true to get a girl acting like this. however in Thailand we have the upper hand so i decided to use it. I told her if that was the case that she was maybe in the wrong place and perhaps she should try her luck elsewhere. She looked like i had thrown molten metal in her face. This was beginning to give me far more enjoyment than shagging her ever would.
‘What do you mean’, she responded.
“I mean look around you’ I replied and pointed to all the thai ladies.
I continued to tell her how the arrogance of the western female had become increasingly offputting and thats why most males in the know were now coming to thailand. She then tried to come over all softly, softly and tried to explain she wasn’t one of these types. She then put her arms around me and whispered ‘please’ in my ear.
I was loving this. I finally pushed her away and said that i wasn’t the slight bit interested.
I could see her the tears of humility rise in her eyes and then she stormed off.
I felt a feeling of power wash over me that i’d never felt before.
Western females do this to men all the time in the west and it was superb to be able to enact the same punishment.
She was lucky though. i could of got her to buy me drinks all night whilst pretending to be interested and then gone off with someone else and the end of the night!
(Mod: Ouch! No wonder many men consider Thailand to be the place where western womens chickens have come home to roost!)
Tourism Thailand slammed ‘creepy’ ad (2 March 2015) Wonder if the stalker angle was really the only “creepy” thing about this ad
The following articles or discussion threads are not specific to Thailand:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/613599-young-men-giving-up-on-marriage/ This discussion is in the ladies sub-forum at ‘Thaivisa’, a roosting place for frustrated western women living in Thailand. Input is strictly controlled by ghastly entitled feminist moderators like ‘Boo’ who suspend or ban male contributors with relish.
Example of discussion thread where Op expresses interest in travelling to Asia to meet women
Why white women hate Asian women (20 December 2006)
Scandinavian men leaving feminists to themselves (25 January 2013)
My sweet and sour dating experience: An expat career woman on Beijing flings (24 November 2013) with a reddit discussion that includes this post:
“When-ever you read a news story that seems a bit hateful, reverse the genders. Then ask yourself: “would this have been published with the reversed genders?” Imagine a guy, travelling to a foreign country, complaining about the “less than average” women getting handsome men and the women’s resulting ‘inflated egos’. Then displaying the racist attitudes toward the locals that they dated. Would a main stream media organization DARE to print something as offensive?“
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11198&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 (Mod: Warning to sensitive readers, this one is quite harsh but included here to show the degree of upset evident amongst some men)
http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/25/marketing-asian-women-to-anti-feminist-men/ (Mod: The article offers no useful insights but the comments that follow include some interesting & quite heated exchanges)
http://bettyfokker.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/priss-pot-and-the-mail-order-bride/ (Bitter feminist perspective on the issue of western men marrying Asian women)
http://www.vagabondish.com/female-foreign-japan/ Blog article written by western woman in Japan complaining about being invisible (this article was discussed in this thread)
And here’s another related thread, but this one is about guys married to Filipinos: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1kr801/
And in closing, who in their right mind would NOT understand western men not wishing to be with a woman like the author of this article? Hmmm?
Related posts within my blog:
Deep down in places that feminists don’t talk about at parties (On the notion of a ‘pussy cartel’)
On Australian men seeking foreign partners
Don’t talk to me! No wait. Talk to me!
6 thoughts on “Western men with Asian women: Gender relations through a different frame of reference”
Very nicely written!
Well written and a great collection of links.
Thanks for writing this. Western women try to shame men for preferring Asian women and insulting us like it’s their right to do so.
They don’t understand that women in Asia still understand what it means to be a woman and take pride in it.
Most of us don’t know how to deal with loud, nasty and aggressive western women. We can see why western men don’t want to deal with them either.
We should also combat racism and the fetishization of minorities.
Perhaps you might be so kind as to clarify/expand your comment?
Do mail order bride really exist?
The answer is Yes, and No, it really depends on your definition of mail order brides.
The historical roots of the mail-order bride industry that emerged in the 1800s in the American frontier: European American men found financial success in the migration West, but the one thing that was missing was the company of a wife. Very few women lived there at this time, so it was hard for these men to settle down and start a family. They attempted to attract women living back East; the men wrote letters to churches and published personal advertisements in magazines and newspapers. In return, the women would write to the men and send them photographs of themselves. Courtship was conducted by letter, until a woman agreed to marry a man she had never met. Many women wanted to escape their present way of living, gain financial security and see what life on the frontier could offer them. Most of these women were single, but some were widows, divorcees or runaways.
During most of the 20 century, the mail order bride continued with the main method of women putting themselves in catalogs. Then men would view the women’s profile, then for a fee order the women address. These became the main order bride companies business method in the 20 the century, with the fall of the Soviet union and cheap airfares, these companies spread from Asian to Eastern Europe, mainly now the Ukraine
Today most women do not leave their countries to escape poverty but to seek a man they believe will be a good husband and provider, that is family orientated and that looks at women with more respect than in many countries around the world.
With the advent of the intent, the mail order bride industry boomed into a billion dollar industry, Now with a few pictures and website, anyone could be in the mail order bride business. With hundreds of ma and pop shops opening over the last two decade, Most who were clients of one of the three original mail order bride companies, A Foreign Affair (AFA), Anastasia and EC, The owner of ForeignLadies.com met his wife while working on a tour from loveme.com, A Foreign affair still today in the largest in the industry, each week they offer tours to one of a dozen countries China to Peru and everywhere in between. The industry grew so fast in 1998, Senator Cantwell of Washington state introduces legislation to regulate the mail order bride industry. and a new law Called: “International Marriage Brokers Act” or IMBRA was born. With stiff regulations, many companies like Anastasia moved from Bride business to Fantasy Chat.
Although the industry strongly objects to the term mail order brides, saying there is no difference if man in New York courting a woman from California through match.com, then courting a woman from Russia. Critics like the Terra Justice Center has a different out look, saying these men take advantage of women oversea. But studies have contradicted these statement and show abuse is actually lower in these marriages. See “International Marriages – A Report to Congress”
So why do thousands of women join these site: Elena Kosalova of the Ukraine says, “Men here are not serious about family, they expect women to stay home while they go out each night with their friends and drink. I want a man who s serious, mature and who wants to be with his wife and family. I have met Americans in the past and they seem more reliable and mature.” Elena rejects the idea she is a “Mail Order Bride”
Why do men seek a mail order bride: James Goodwin, 43 of South Carolina says, ” I meet women here all the time, but I just can not find the values I am looking for.. I have dated here for more than 20 years, After three days in Kiev, I was shock at how many beautiful women I met that I would consider marrying, now I am just trying to reduce my options and pick the right one. It truly is the fastest way to find a beautiful sincere women.
So what is the cost, the cost can range greatly from site to site and from type of service, AFA or loveme.com offers everything from letter writing, tours and executive services for the rich and famous. As little as $12 to as much as $25,000. The owner John Adams say’s the best way is just go over and meet then women, avoid letters and never waste money on expensive chat. You can meet up to 1000 beautiful women in just 10 days, it will be the greatest vacation of your life. Joe Nail of ForeignLadies.com, has stayed with the traditional Letter Writing, Each letter is $7.50 and but say they do plan on offer some limited chat option.
Many sites like,foreignwomen.com, PhilippineSinges.com, and UkraineSsingles.com, that offer simple unlimited membership for $29 per month. These type of site also target pacific regions, like Asia, Latin America or Eastern Europe.
There is also a site for mail order grooms; SingleMenOnline.com, that caters to men publishing their photos in hopes to meet an American Bride.
James Dunn, who is a ghost writer for review sites says “You get what you pay for. Membership sites to do not screen the members at all. so you never know who you really are writing, The big boys require the women to apply in person in one of their local offices. The companies that offer group tours will introduce you to hundreds of beautiful women, for the cost of $1000 to $3000 depending on location, about the same you would pay for any vacation. Several companies also do individual tours these can range from $750 to $1500, But only arrange one to one introductions, Always make sure they are biased in the USA or EU, Most of the complaints come from small agencies that are desperate and need to make as much as they can from you. Just a note, if the company is based in an a foreign country you will have no recourse if they do not follow through.
So do mail order brides exist, If you belive a if a woman is a mail order bride if she lives in another county then Yes, But if you believe it just another dating option like any on-line dating site, matchmaker or dating service, than No. . It really seems like a doubled standard in the world, If a women meets a man in Italy or France, then oh that is so romantic, but if a man meets a women in Philippines, than …