Prawn of the Patriarchy: Celebrating our first six months

Well, doesn’t time fly? This site has now been up for six months, features around 100 posts, and has attracted more than 40,000 spam attempts and even a few real live humans.

During that time I’ve read scores of articles on the topics of feminism, men’s rights, and on specific mens issues like domestic abuse, sexual assault, marriage and fatherhood, and the portrayal of men in the media. So much is happening, and bearing in mind other demands on my time, that I haven’t been able to write nearly as many articles as I would have liked.

That being the case this site remains more of an annotated bibliography than a blog in its own right. Nevertheless I still hope that it might prove to be a useful resource, especially bearing in mind the fact that existing online information ‘clearing-houses’ addressing gender-related matters, all but ignore material that is favourable towards the mens rights perspective.

So, what have I seen and/or learnt during this time? Well, quite a bit actually, but the following observations most readily spring to mind:

  • I have become increasingly disillusioned with feminism and feminists, and further inclined towards the view that one cannot be both an effective men’s rights advocate and a supporter of feminism. This has been a direct result of encountering more and more evidence of feminist duplicity and double-standards, and of their tendency towards vindictiveness and censorship in relation to those attempting to advance alternative views. This is part and parcel of the widening chasm between the dictionary definition of ‘feminism’ and the reality of what is actually being said and done by its adherents. There are a few voices of fairness and reason within the ranks of feminists, but overall the movement has become so radicalised and corrupted that they would be better of consigning feminism to the trash bin of history and starting something afresh.
  • Whilst the media still overwhelmingly panders to feminists and the feminist perspective, I am seeing more and more pro-mens rights and anti-feminist views being expressed via readers comments that follow online media articles on gender issues (see example and then read footnote below). I get the feeling that feminists are beginning to retreat more and more to their own online hang-outs as they begin to be questioned and called-out. In what is probably a related development, I note that it is becoming more common for publishers to disable the ‘readers comments’ function, for this facility to be quickly suspended once they see that the tide of reader opinion is running contrary to the (feminist) author’s position, and for readers comments to be more and more heavily (and selectively) moderated.
  • I continue to be shocked and disappointed by the lack of acknowledgment (let alone support) given to male victims of discrimination/harassment, domestic violence and sexual abuse. I have included posts in relation to several agencies that demonstrate this type of bias, but in fact it is endemic within very many media outlets, government agencies and NGO’s. The only difference between them is the extent to which they bother to disguise their sexism. Take for example the organisation ‘Relationships Australia Victoria’. I was pleased to note that on this page, for example, there was little obvious gender stereotyping. But then when I clicked on ‘Safe from Violence booklet‘, I see that the booklet is only aimed at female victims of violence. I ask you, “how easy would it have been to write this book so that it was gender neutral or alternatively had alternate chapters for male and female victims?” Why wouldn’t you do that? Ignorance and/or sexist bias are the only reasons that I can think of.
  • Another thing that continues to amaze is the massive discrepancy between the vigour with which people rush to defend feminism from perceived attack, and the obvious lack of effort that most put into building an awareness of historical and contemporary developments in feminism. By the same token there is an even greater discrepancy between the fury with which feminists attack the mens rights movement, and their level of knowledge of that subject area. Feminist awareness of MRA is generally limited to browsing anti-MRA articles circulated within feminist ‘safe-spaces’, featuring the same old recycled cherry-picked out-of-context comments long-since trawled from the online ‘manosphere’.

Footnote: How ironic that within a few hours of including this reference to this article, the moderator removed sixteen of the comments posted by readers who had objected to the evident feminist bias – all but two of which I had seen and considered to be in no way offensive. By the time they closed off comments the following afternoon, a further eleven comments has been removed. Further details in this post.

‘Sunrise’ provides equal time for feminism and men’s rights

The ‘Weekend Sunrise’ show surprised and pleased by providing separate interviews with MRA Paul Elam and feminist Laci Green.

On Saturday morning there was an interview with Paul Elam

Paul discussed the fact that mens work/life choices are more limited than women, but most of the all-too-brief interview was taken up with a discussion of rape hysteria and the need to address the problem of rape in a more rigorous and fair-minded manner.

Reddit discussion thread here and here is an article about Paul’s interview

On Sunday morning it was the turn of Laci Green

The intro provided by Andrew O’Keefe – and his comments throughout the interview left absolutely no doubt where his allegiance lies … “The history of feminism is long, strong and proud …. in fact (if not for feminism) married women, you would still be the property of your husband“. Oh please.

Feminism is wonderful – just badly misrepresented, feminism is not about hating men, feminism is just about equality and stopping sexual objectification, blah blah blah. Keep moving folks, nothing new to be seen/heard here.

The boobs are used to sell everything …” Yes indeed Andrew, and that’s nowhere clearer than watching Laci’s efforts on Youtube.

Reddit discussion thread here which features the comment:

“[Laci] is what we call one of the “Aren’t Like That” feminists that all the other feminists use to cover their bigotry. You want to know what kind of person Laci Green is? Let me tell you.

First, I have to explain a few things. In the hood, we like to have parties. We like to get rowdy, smoke some herb, get crunk. We like to play music loud and act a fool. The problem with this is, the cops show up. Now, I’m not sure you all know what its like having the cops show up, but some people at this party have illicit drugs, or arrest warrants, or just no fucking sense. So someone has to talk to the cops. You always want to have a well spoken, easygoing, friendly person at your parties so that THEY can talk to the cops and make sure none of the other people at the party get into any shit.

Thats who feminists like Laci Green are. They’re the person Feminism has answering the door when society comes knocking and wants to know what’s going on.”

More about Laci Green here and here

(Postscript 4 December 2018: Bettina Arndt, Sam Armitage and Nat Barr stirred up the feminists with this discussion of the #MeToo phenomenon. And then – of course – a follow-up article about the outrage, entitled ‘Sunrise cops criticism over one-sided #MenToo discussion’)

Dealing with mens issues – The current situation in Australia

This view of the current situation in relation to addressing mens issues in Australia has been compiled by one who is relatively new to the field. As such it may contain some errors or omissions, so please feel free to contribute further information or correct any inadvertent mistakes.

Australian men’s issues have both a physical and online footprint that is vastly smaller than is the case for women’s issues. There are a number of reasons for this, but the primary one is the enormous disparity in government support in relation to the two. Pro-feminist media bias in combination with feminist tactics of shaming and censorship has also proved quite effective in stifling male activism and lobbying up to this point in time.

Of those Australian organisations and sites dealing with mens issues that do have some public profile, almost all have a health focus. Most of these organisations/sites appear to be rather introspective and self-effacing in nature, i.e. essentially to keep under the feminist radar and to avoid jeopardising whatever pitiable amount of funding or government support they might receive.

Those few mens programs that do attract funding, for example the men’s shed movement, only manage to do so as they are seen as somewhat twee and posing no threat to the achievement of feminist objectives.

Government agencies: I am not aware of any federal or state government agency that deals specifically with mens and boys issues, nor even a dedicated section within a government agency. This is a huge point of difference in comparison with the situation with women’s and girls issues.

Of those government agencies that do address specific men’s issues, the most prominent are agencies dealing with mental health and with domestic violence. With regards to the latter at least, the primary emphasis is on ‘educating’ and ‘treating’ male perpetrators of acts of violence and abuse. Whilst some claim to offer services to male victims, any mention of such services is virtually confined to the ‘fine print’ within relevant web sites.

The way that domestic violence web sites are worded gives the impression of a distinct pro-female and anti-male bias (example). Given that men are already less likely to reports acts of abuse against them, one could suggest with confidence that the character of domestic violence web sites acts as a significant disincentive to come forward.

I deal with the issue of government agencies and ‘not-for-profit’ organisations that ignore or downplay men’s welfare in this other blog post.

Mens studies: As you can see in this thread, an attempt was recently made to establish a men’s studies course in Australia. This was met with a furious feminist backlash and was shelved. One of those who spoke against the initiative was Michael Flood, a staunch feminist who misrepresents himself as a spokesperson for the Australian men’s rights movement. The only remaining part of that initiative was, I think, one or two subjects on men’s health being made available.

Mens health: Men’s health advocates comprise a mix of individual counselors, universities, and non-government organisations. Their stance towards men’s rights varies between one of neutrality to a ‘deer in the headlights’ stance brought about through their concern that any perceived association with MRA could threaten their political acceptability and hence access to government funding. The latter position is demonstrated by the charity discussed in this other blog post. There are, however some virulently anti-MRA outliers such as Michael Salter, Michael Flood, and more recently some character by the name of Joshua Roose (an example of his unfortunate mindset).

The level of government funding for Australian mens health issues/organisations (as with men’s issues/organisations generally) is miniscule in comparison to that allocated to women.  I recently also became aware that funding for The Men’s Health Information and Resource Centre had been slashed.

Here is the web site for Men’s Health Week (11-17 June 2018)

Some of the better-known men’s health organisations/spokespersons include:

Men’s Health Australia
Australian Men’s Health Forum (see also their ‘links‘ page)
Australian Institute of Male Health and Studies
Centre for Advancement of Men’s Health
Men4Life support group
Men’s Health Clearinghouse
The Shed Online (an initiative of Beyond Blue)
Dr Elizabeth Celi
Inspire change counselling

‘Relating to Men’ was a great site that was sadly removed after sustained online harassment of the author, Jasmin Newman

Fathers issues (incl. divorce, custody, etc):

Dads4Kids
Lone Fathers Association
Australian Brotherhood of Fathers (See related article here)
Dads in Distress support services
Fathers for Equality
‘Dads on the Air’ radio program
Non-Custodial Parents Party (Equal Parenting)

Men’s rights activism:
The most popular online forum for sharing news and information is Reddit Mensrights
Mens Rights Agency
Mens Rights Sydney and Mens Rights Melbourne (with a further group formed in Brisbane in early 2015)
Australian Men’s Rights Association

A couple of other recognised spokespersons on mens/boys issues outside the realm of politics are:

Dr. Greg Canning is the Australian liaison for the US-based organisation ‘A Voice for Men‘, and has written many articles and submissions on men’s issues. ‘A Voice for Men’ also now has its own Australian committee.

Greg Andresen works for the ‘One in Three’ organisation which advocates for male victims of domestic violence, and is the Australian liaison for the US-based organisation ‘National Coalition for Men‘ as well as being an active advocate for men’s health.

Australian politics and gender issues:

An argument put forward by feminists is that men can’t possibly be discriminated against because most politicians are male. This point was addressed in a comment I came across online:

“Men in power do not act in the interest of other men. They are widely influenced by women and their lobbying efforts, and are more likely to act in the interests of them.” (Source: http://time.com/2949435/what-i-learned-as-a-woman-at-a-mens-rights-conference/)

This is certainly the case here in Australia, where most of our politicians, from Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull on down … are too busy cowering in fear at the thought of being labelled misogynists to contemplate representing the interests of 50% of their constituents. You can see some of Malcolm Turnbull’s unfortunate early comments on gender matters here, here and here. One ray of hope, however, might be foreign minister Julie Bishop.

I can’t help wondering what could be achieved if only we had an Australian politician with the tenacity and courage of Philip Davies in the UK (see this example of his efforts). Philip’s pioneering efforts with gender equality are also discussed in this article.

Meanwhile other MP’s like Tim Watts (Australian Labor Party) are pathetically eager to champion feminist causes and/or push men under the bus (see related reddit discussion here).

There are a few exceptions to the rule:

George Christensen, Federal Member for Dawson: Of the hundreds of state and federal politicians paid for by us taxpayers, George is the only one with the guts to come out and openly support ANY fathers/mens/boys issue. George is currently chairing a Parliamentary Inquiry into the Child Support Program. Here is a speech by George concerning family law, and another paper regarding the issue of child support. And this is what George gets for speaking up on these issues.

Senator John Madigan (Independent) and George Christensen launched the Parliamentary Friends of Shared Parenting on 16 June 2015 … “We need to end parental alienation because every child deserves a meaningful relationship with his or her mother and father.” Feel the hurt from this feminist journalist as she bemoans the fact that these politicians dared to corrupt public policy by (shudder) listening to men.

Another federal parliamentarian, Bob Katter has also previously expressed concern regarding anti-male bias within the family court system.

Labor’s Member for Greenway in Western Sydney, Michelle Rowland, has asked a parliamentary inquiry examining the child support system, to consider whether custodial parents should be accountable for how they spend child support money (Source)

Senator Cory Bernardi dared to suggest that it might sometimes be appropriate to use a headlock on a violent woman during an incident of domestic violence, and was publicly accused of encouraging violence against women. In June 2016 Cory was also criticized for tweeting a link to an article by Roosh V concerning social justice warriors.

Victorian MP Graham Watt is another one to watch after attracting media attention for refusing to give misandrist DV lobbyist Rosie Batty a standing ovation. See this article also (including readers comments)

Senator Mitch Fifield warrants an honourable mention for his refusal to accept a sexist slur offered by Katy Gallagher.

David Leyonhjelm (formerly Liberal Democrats) has also made a name for himself in this regard in the federal sphere, before moving to the state (NSW) arena (see video), and then losing his seat.

Also in NSW, Senator Jewell Drury is, amongst other things, seeking reform with regards to the treatment of domestic violence.

In Queensland, Opposition Corrective Services spokesman Tim Mander accused Labor of exceeding its party’s gender quota system in relation to appointments to the Parole Board.

See also my posts in relation to the views of both the major parties and minor parties in relation to feminism and gender-related issues.

By and large the only Australia politicians with the courage to challenge the feminist orthodoxy are ex-politicians, as discussed in this other blog post.

One person to keep an eye on going forward is Augusto Zimmermann, who is Law Reform Commissioner at the Law Reform Commission of Western Australia. Dr Zimmermann has been proposed as a possible replacement for Gillian Triggs at the Australian Human Rights Commission.

The Australian media:

The MSM in Australia is a lost cause for the time being, with very few journalists willing to be seen to question feminist orthodoxy. Those that do, know full-well what they can expect. Some examples might include Andrew Bolt, Miranda Devine and Rita Panahi.

Where are things up to in Australia at the moment amongst the general population? Well I would liken the situation with most men to frogs being boiled in a pot. The temperature is going up slowly and steadily and guys just aren’t noticing how hot things are. The temperature in this case being the increasing anti-male bias in the media, in the law, in politics, etc.

Further, and contrary to the notion of patriarchy, men’s own innate behaviour is such that they lend themselves to being taken advantage of. For example, the default setting for most men is to help and protect women rather than criticise them. Men are also very reluctant to been seen to portray themselves as victims, and would prefer to internalise problems and deal with them on their own (rather than for example join a men’s group).

Most men (and women) have little knowledge of the mens rights movement, and consequently the views of many reflect the deeply biased picture painted in the mainstream media, i.e. MRA as being violent, as being ‘rednecks’, as being ultra-conservative, and as being ‘woman-haters’. By the same token, most men (and women) are equally ill-informed about the true nature of feminism and so accept the benign ‘dictionary definition of feminism’ as portrayed in the media.

Nevertheless, however, many men are reaching the inescapable conclusion that the pendulum has swayed far beyond the mid-way point with regards to the rights of women vis a vis the rights of men. They also recognise that there is also a widening gap between the respective rights and obligations of men and women.

Many men are increasingly unhappy and dissatisfied in their interaction with women. Many men have also either suffered considerable psychological and financial trauma as a result of divorce, or know friends who have been shattered in this manner. (And coincidentally or otherwise, women have also become increasingly unhappy.)

As a consequence whilst the majority of Aussie guys remain unwilling to take collective action, or to identify as an MRA, I am seeing many more men and women expressing their views in the online world in response to media articles that have an anti-male bias (example 1 / example 2 / example 3).

Another telling indicator is the huge number of visitors to MHRA sites like ‘A Voice for Men’ versus the relatively small number who are actually registered members. This suggests to me that there are a lot of people ‘sitting on the fence’ at the moment awaiting a tipping-point, whereupon we will see far greater and more organised expressions of assertive (yet assiduously non-violent) activism.

Further background material

Sorry, Snarling Clementine, but the UN says we’re a leader in treating women well and gender equity (11 March 2020)

The trumpet blasts of the monstrous regiment (26 September 2016)

It was great to see fitness advocate Michelle Bridges bravely speak out for male victims of domestic violence on the Studio Ten TV show, despite the fact that the comperes made their own pro-feminist views abundantly clear (10 November 2015)

http://www.australianmensrights.com/Fathers_Rights-Australia/Rise_of_Australian_Fathers_Rights_Groups_Worries_Australian_Feminists.aspx

Feminism: Past its use-by date? (1 August 2014) An ABC radio interview with Australian feminists and anti-feminist activist Janet Bloomfield (plus readers comments)

A lesson from the U.K. for Australian political parties thinking of wooing feminist voters (14 November 2014)

Feminist efforts to shut down, disrupt and/or denigrate the 2014 Conference on Mens Issues

I was initially going to address this issue within my existing post on feminist censorship of non-feminist viewpoints, but the first International conference on Men’s Issues grew in significance such that it well and truly warranted its own blog post. The conference concluded, happily without incident, on 28 June 2014. Here is an overview of the conference which contains links to several presentations, and here are further links to other papers presented at the conference.

Feminist activism designed to stop the conference being held was clearly unsuccessful – this included street marches, online petitions and direct approaches to relevant authorities, and even anonymous threats of violence. These threats ultimately led to the conference being relocated to another venue under unusual circumstances as is described in this article.

Here is a Youtube video that was made to support a fund-raising drive needed to cover additional costs resulting from threats made to the venue hotel.

Protest Saturday: Misogynistic conference in Detroit (6 June 2014) Remarkably inaccurate and biased article by feminist blogger and here is the comment contributed by an MRA which will never be published (as is common practice with feminist web pages)

http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/threats-of-violence-and-death-against-doubletree-hilton-in-detroit-over-mens-conference/

http://judgybitch.com/2014/05/29/oh-look-trigger-happy-protesters-are-planning-to-shut-down-the-detroit-conference-promising-things-could-get-ugly/

Controversial mens rights conference sparks backlash (29 May 2014)

http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/letter-to-emma-howland-bolton-regarding-threats-of-violence-and-death-by-protesters-under-her-organization-mason-elementary/

Feminist blog post outlining her reasons for wanting the conference cancelled

Mens rights misrepresented – A letter to the Editor (10 June 2014)

Controversial men’s rights conference canceled at Double Tree in downtown Detroit (11 June 2014) There were 658 comments when I read the article – and some good ones amongst them too.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/28u8v3/just_lol_among_their_efforts_to_shut_down_avfm/ (reddit discussion thread with link to a pro-feminist web site discussing the conference)

Reddit discussion about feminist change in tactics in relation to the conference … Giving the threat of violence as a reason to stay away is absurd – ALL of the intimidation that has occurred at prior MRA events has been carried out by feminists.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-censorship/what-those-who-oppose-our-conference-look-like/ (refer in particular to readers comments)

Well, as it transpired, thankfully there were no feminist protesters present at the Conference and it was by all accounts a peaceful and productive event.

Media coverage of the conference

Media coverage of the conference covered a spectrum from supportive and thoughtful to shallow, dismissive and side-tracking. Many of the articles attracted many hundreds of readers comments, hence even the articles with a strong anti-MRA bias provided a useful function of encouraging debate.

Here are some of the more negative articles:

http://blogs.metrotimes.com/news-blawg/molested-mens-rights-conference/

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/29/sparsely-attended-mens-rights-soiree-arrives-at-source-of-their-problems-hint-its-women/

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/06/28/the-first-international-conference-on-mens-issues-day-1/ and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arthur-goldwag/mens-issues-conference_b_5543418.html by feminist bigot Arthur Goldwag … but the comments by readers are worthy of review. A rebuttal of Goldwag’s Huffington Post article can be seen here

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mens-rights-conference-feminism

http://www.msnbc.com/now-with-alex-wagner/watch/an-international-conference-on-men-s-rights–296068675959

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/29w5tq/should_i_be_concerned_some_recent_media_attention/

Men’s rights activists, gathering to discuss all the ways society has done them wrong by Monica Hesse (30 June 2014) With more than 1300 comments as of 3 July 2014

http://www.refinery29.com/2014/07/70393/mra-mens-rights-conference?unique_id=entry_70393#comment-1464508103 by Kelsey Miller (1 July 2014) This blog post has already attracted 900 comments as of 3 July – and I would recommend having a look at these as many good points are being raised therein.

What I learned as a woman at a Men’s Rights Conference by Jessica Roy (2 July 2014) *You can read a rebuttal of Roy’s article here*

As you will see, in each of the above cases, large numbers of men and women have posted comments pointing out the negativity, bias and hypocrisy shown by the authors. Indeed there are some very thoughtful and insightful comments amongst these – recommended reading!

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/11/mens_rights_groups_sad_reality_behind_the_doors_of_a_depressing_confab/

http://fusion.net/culture/story/mens-rights-activists-fight-feminist-oppressors-831312 (1 July 2014)

https://www.tytnetwork.com/2014/07/04/the-insane-things-said-at-the-1st-annual-mens-rights-conference/ (4 July 2014)

Why ‘Men’s Rights Activists’ Are the Worst People to Advocate for Men’s Rights (10 July 2014)

Here are some of the more positive articles:

A kinder, gentler turn to the gender wars‘ (29 June 2014)

What’s next for the gender wars‘ (3 July 2014)

The Secret Agenda of the Men’s Rights Movement Exposed (6 July 2014)

NCFM Vice President responds to criticism about MRA’s and the AVfM conference in Detroit (25 July 2014) See http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/ncfm-vice-president-responds-to-criticism-about-mras-and-the-avfm-conference-in-detroit/

… plus a positive blog post at http://blog.studiobrule.com/2014/06/international-conference-on-mens-issues.html

And some further observations from an MHRA about the nature of media coverage the event attracted

Conference reflections: A young woman becomes an MRA‘ (23 July 2014)

Finally, ‘Is this the best they can do?” (25 February 2015)

Some good comments in response to a blog post I came across today

I was researching the issue of feminists pulling fire alarms to disrupt MHRA meetings or similar, and came across a 2013 blog post by some feminist or another. The post was dross but I rather liked several responses provided by one of the readers (‘East1956’), who also posts in AVfM I see. It was well written whoever you are, and worth saving and repeating here:

“It seems to me that in its latest evolution feminism wants to project itself as a movement that can represent women and men against the “Patriarchy”, now an infinitely mutable entity that allegedly oppresses both men and women. In this evolution feminists abrogate to themselves the right to decide what and how men, an enormous & diverse constituency, should think and express their perceptions.

Feminism has since the 70′s forewarned of the “Backlash”, and reactionary response to social, economic and political change initiated by feminist influenced change.

IMO there is a profound sense of hypocrisy in some of the stances taken by feminists when they decry some of the extreme statements made by individual men associated with MRA’s and other men’s awareness movements. Hypocritical because in its earlier phases those within the feminist movement have on one hand called for some fairly violent things to be done to men, and have insisted on the validity of narrow female perspectives of events.

Since the 90′s in response to feminism there has been the evolution of several men’s awareness initiatives. Some of these have been confrontational to feminism and some less so. What drove this was the ongoing crisis that our societies face as young men fail to engage with society in the manner of previous generations. We may have expressed this as “Men In Crisis” or “Boys In Crisis”, but the crisis is a collective one.

If we are to address these issues, then men need to explore their own issues and perspectives, and frankly no amount of women have the authority or even real insight to afford them the right to determine how men may perceive these issues or express their reactions. At best women can be observers, and allies.

What none of us should overlook or forget is that our entire social order is predicated on men working and generating wealth for their entire lives, and we cannot afford for them to disengage from this. The impact of men’s apparent failure to maintain their wealth creation capacities are women, children and the elderly as they are the consumers of the wealth that men create.

However, in this post-feminist world men need to synthesize a new response to the demands upon them. The social order that kept the majority of men engaged in previous generations is gone, and is unlikely ever to be recovered.

IMO there is a painful journey to be undertaken in which men explore their experiences and articulate their perceptions. Women are going to hear things that will be at best uncomfortable, but no worse than statements such as “All Men Are Rapists!”.

New feminists cannot absolve themselves of the feminist inheritance, anymore than men can absolve themselves of the past oppression of women.

It seems to me that feminism has long abandoned calm rational logical evidence-based debate and has descended into one successive bout of enraged screaming after another. It occurs to me that this has more to do with trying to drawn out the small voices of ordinary men who are trying to express their experiences. In those fora the only male voice that is heard is the one that equals the vociferousness of those feminists.

It would be better if everyone stopped screaming, kept quiet and started actively listening.

One characteristic, that the young new feminists should perhaps take account of, is the number of older women, who state that they were active feminists, who now are joining MRA’s etc to support mens calls for reform. Almost without exception these women are drawing upon their life experience of close partnership with men, and their observation of their male partner’s experiences. This should pose a question among the young women on the front-line whether what they are being told actually corresponds to the realities that they have yet to encounter. But that is an issue for women….. i.e what is a UK woman to think when her male partner falls ill and he can’t get treatment because gender politics have determined that 85% of all, non-gynecological, health care is directed towards females and that her partners being neither under 16 or over 65 is not a priority case? That woman may think may things as she watches him suffer and then perhaps die, quite necessarily. She undoubtedly will question whether the feminism she has hitherto identified with deserves her support.”

“Feminism has long had a fine line in “Traitor!” accusations for women who “join” the other side. It’s a tough decision to make if you are going to face a barrage of abuse and threats. 

Re: Healthcare – unfortunately it’s tough but decisions about who gets what have to be made. In the ideal world there would be no limit, but in the ideal world so many things would be different and I would be youngish, incredibly handsome and women would hurl themselves at my feet! Only joking, I’d trip over them and hurt myself.

The problem I think is in the MRA / feminist conflict is that from the MRA POV feminists have wielded enormous power in terms of public policy & resources, even though I am certain that most feminists would deny it. In UK here have been a number of credible reports from entities like Royal College of Nursing and Law Society calling for reforms to public policy to afford equality for men. 

From my own research for UK govt men’s Health Forum, it became clear that the women involved in the group really didn’t recognise until it was pointed out to them that society has profoundly different messages for men and women. I analysed a range of very successful TV adverts and then did a gender role swap to highlight how much we are conditioned to accept certain things about men and women. One of the things that surprised the women were the number of ads that had a story line which in a gender reversed mode they immediately cited as intimate partner abuse according to Duluth model. Yet in the original versions they didn’t recognise the actions of the women characters as abusive.

The other problem for the MRA’s is dealing with the conflation of the impact of feminism and the consequences of poor political decisions that have led to the diminution of men’s ability to generate wealth and thus their marginalisation.

  • “A Thought:

Is the man who calls himself a feminist, merely a spruced up version of the Edwardian model of the man who stood aside for weaker women and children, willing to stand on the decks of the Titanic stoically as it slid beneath the waves? All very noble, but to have reached that condition men had to be willing and able, through social conditioning, to suppress the natural instincts. That model of stoicism created men incapable of expressing their emotions, who became distorted people through the endless suppression of self. 

Is there not a convenience in falling in behind feminism with its inherent emphasis upon women’s interests and inherent subordination of men’s interests that let men avoid examining the condition of men in our society and the catastrophe that has befallen many?”

Footnote: In the same blog I came across this post, where the blogger crosses swords with Karen Straughan (aka ‘Girl Writes What’). Again, I would move straight to the comments section where you’ll find some interesting discussion on the issue of the extent to which feminism is based on and/or fosters the hatred of men.

On chivalry

Upon entering the search term ‘feminist good manners’ into google one day, one of the first papers to crop up was one entitled No chivalry, thanks”.

The author of that article sought to differentiate between the notion of ‘good manners/politeness’ on the one hand and ‘chivalry’ on the other. Her position was that good manners are mostly OK, whilst ‘chivalry’ is bad. I agree with her that chivalry can be a negative factor … but not for the reason she states.

Let’s detour for a moment to visit www.thefreedictionary.com, where upon entering the term “good manners” we bring up the following related words:

  • courtesy
  • personal manner, manner – a way of acting or behaving
  • niceness, politeness – a courteous manner that respects accepted social usage
  • urbanity – polished courtesy; elegance of manner
  • graciousness – excellence of manners or social conduct
  • chivalry, politesse, gallantry – courtesy towards women
  • respectfulness, deference, respect – courteous regard for people’s feelings; “in deference to your wishes”; “out of respect for his privacy”
  • civility – formal or perfunctory politeness

The definition of the term ‘chivalry’, on the other hand, includes “The qualities idealized by knighthood, such as bravery, courtesy, honor, and gallantry toward women”, and “kindness and courteousness especially towards women or the weak”.

Back now to the ‘No chivalry, thanks‘ article where the author takes aim at two criticisms of feminism, which she describes as being:

The “cake and eat it too” complaint: “This anti-feminist argument says that women want to be independent and strong when it’s convenient for them, but they don’t want to lose the option for men to buy them dinner, open doors, and all around make them feel special. We want all the rights afforded to men, but that we also want to be treated better than men. Feminists want special, not equal, treatment, or in other words, they want their cake and to eat it too”, and

The “feminists hate manners!” complaint: “Other anti-feminists have chosen to smack-talk feminism by claiming that any stance which truly speaks out against chivlary (sic) is actually an affront to good manners.”

The author indicates that she’d “like to dismantle these complaints”, but in fact her views only serve to reinforce the validity of those complaints whilst undermining the feminist perspective generally. Her comments include:

The core of my disdain for chivalry is that it’s rooted in a gendered premise. Its very notion is that women need special assistance and wooing, which I flat out disagree with. Given this, I can say fully that I do not want or expect chivalry. In that way, the “cake and eat it too” complaint is nonsense to me. I do not want any person to look at me and treat me differently based off of (sic) my gender, even if that treatment is favourable.

(Mod: My emphasis added. LOL … I think we could readily find a plethora of exceptions to that with respect to feminist goals and achievements generally!)

“The same goes for stereotypes of all sorts–just because something is “nice” (ie Asians are so smart!) doesn’t make it any less racist. So with chivalry, just because it’s “friendly,” doesn’t make it any less sexist.”

“All in all, I simply feel that chivalry and feminism are inherently incompatible. I would never expect to be treated both equally and special. That’s an oxymoron. In fact, I’m not entirely sure that there are women who actually are advocating for both. Yes, some women want chivalry, but I would suspect they do not typically identify as feminists. To me, it seems a to be a straw man situation, as is the claim that feminists are really attacking manners. Nevertheless, it is important for us to understand the arguments used against our viewpoints, no matter how trivial.”

So in short, many feminists abhor chivalry because they perceive it as a pattern of behaviour intended to subjugate and patronise women, and as a manifestation of what they term ‘benevolent sexism‘.

Ah, but it gets confusing. In yet another of their breathtaking displays of hypocrisy, feminists strongly rely upon and encourage chivalry to achieve their goals. Look at all the calls for men to mobilise against other men in stopping domestic abuse and rape. Consider the #HeForShe campaign and many other similar campaigns. In none of these examples do feminists call for, or support, corresponding  campaign for women to support men or men’s rights.

In contrast, the core of my ambivalence in relation to chivalry is that:

  • I believe in gender equality, and chivalry cannot and should not exist where there is true equality
  • Chivalry is the fuel that drives the actions of ‘white knights’, men who make it their duty to hamper progress on raising awareness and acceptance of men’s rights issues.
  • Chivalry stands in the way of objective reasoning. Chivalry causes men to conflate the often unreasonable assertions and demands of feminists, with the welfare of women generally. I see this happening in almost every mainstream media article that permits readers to contribute comments, wherein men attack one another in the mistaken belief that any progress on achieving mens rights is not just a set-back for women, but somehow akin to spitting in their face. If only such men would make an effort to familiarise themselves with not just the specific issue under consideration, but also both the nature of feminism and of men’s rights advocacy generally.

More thoughts on good manners and chivalry

Good Samaritan case: Woman who lied about sex assault faces court (15 May 2019)

Two terribly unchivalrous ladies (3 October 2018)

Court sheriff sacked for breaking up a fight between two women (3 October 2018) Australia

Modern dating experiences including ‘ghosting’ and ‘breadcrumbing’ leave three in four women feeling that chivalry is dead (2 August 2017) Women have been doing these things to men since whenever, now more men are giving back the same and it’s suddenly unfair

‘Good Samaritan’ bullied, beaten and called a kidnapper after helping lost child (29 June 2017)

This reader’s comment by ‘SantaOrange’ in a Reddit discussion thread addresses why chivalry is a major constraint to making progress on men’s rights (10 May 2017)

Here’s a recent newspaper item that features a prat-like whinge from a woman who would like men to leave her alone – after they perform whatever service she requires. Presumably men are meant to  magically realise that she is a feminist and is not interested in social overtures. But on the other hand they are magically meant to know that although she is a feminist, she does appreciate men helping her by performing manual labour in relation to her overweight carry-on luggage. Perhaps if she held up a sign providing all this information, then men might be more co-operative/compliant. A subsequent online discussion can be found here.

And here is an article on the subject of holding doors open (plus readers comments) in a feminist blog.

Here is an article entitled ‘He also pays for his own dinners‘ that , in a patronising tone, sniffs at the notion of men displaying chivalry and their motivations for doing so. The best thing about the article was this readers comment:

“The most generous and helpful thing a man can do for a woman on an individual level is to hold her accountable – no letting her off because she’s female.

If traditional expressions of chivalry are important to women, let women do them. My girlfriend brought me flowers last night because I had a bad day. Fine. I’ll cook her dinner sometime.

Listen men, chivalry backfires. If you pay for the first date you’re losing a valuable opportunity to screen out the women who will see you as nothing but an ATM machine. And there’s no such thing as paying for a first date anyway. When you pay for a first date, you’re making it cheaper for her to go on another date with somebody else. You’re just subsidizing her search for the perfect man. Do yourself a favour and make women chip in for their quest for Mr. Right.

And men, while we’re on the subject of chivalry, remember you’re not a human punching bag. Make it very clear at the beginning of the relationship: if she ever hits you, screams at you, or calls you names, or tries to humiliate you in front of your friends, or destroys any of your property on purpose, or tries to use sex as a bargaining chip, that’s the end of the relationship, right then, right there. No questions asked. No looking back. Just walk away.

Don’t let your sense of chivalry turn you into a victim. You’re better than that.”

Men are weirdly concerned about trans women’s use of female bathrooms, according to new study (December 2016) How to take a good thing – men’s ingrained protective instinct towards women – and paint it as a negative.

“Men were 1.5 times more likely than women to have concerns about transgender women using women’s bathrooms.”

Man stabbed in Southbank while coming to woman’s aid (25 February 2017) Australia. It appears the female being assaulted left the scene – did you she render any assistance to her rescuer? Don’t be that guy. Timely that this incident occurred the same week as this article in The Conversation.

Dave Chappelle on how women killed chivalry (21 November 2016) Comedy video

Home Hill stabbing: British journalist Tom Jackson attacked as he went to aid of Mia Ayliffe-Chung (26 August 2016) Tom sadly later died from his injuries.

Damseling, chivalry and courtly love (part two) by Peter Wright (17 July 2016)

Belinda Brown: Women exploit men’s chivalrous instincts (12 June 2016)

Chivalry is not dead when it comes to morality (8 June 2016) We’re more likely to sacrifice a man than a woman when it comes to both saving the lives of others and in pursuing our self-interests, a team of psychology researchers has found.

Where are the stand up men? (29 May 2016) This special snowflake rant earned itself some rather forthright readers comments. Further commentary here.

The Confused Male: Do women really want what they say they want? (3 May 2016) UK

Chivalry: A learned deathwish, by Paul Elam (25 April 2016)

Would you be a Good Samaritan? Chinese kung fu student JAILED after saving woman from sexual harassment on a bus (22 April 2016) China. The woman ran away

Liz Hayes relives terrifying moment 60 Minutes crew were attacked (21 March 2016) Australia. Careful Liz, don’t let the feminists hear you admitting that – it’s kind of the opposite of their precious narrative …

“I just knew, they wouldn’t hit me … I was glad, right then, that I was a woman. I felt they wouldn’t hit me because of that, and that might mean I could slow things down a bit. I’m pretty sure if I was one of the guys I probably would have been hit as well.”

Good Samaritan Norman Olsen dies in hospital (24 February 2016) Australia

Female bouncers, sin bins should be considered as part of lockout laws, psychologist says (19 February 2016) I think female bouncers would be less likely to get punched due (in part) to chivalry, but the idea appears to contradict the feminist position on DV whereby men seen to be just as likely/more likely to hit a woman.

Chivalry and the Law: How Women Get Off, by Krista Milburn (15 February 2016) Recommended reading

Feminism, sex-differences and chivalry (7 February 2016)

Boats for women, by Mark Dent (12 January 2016)

Chivalry still a force to be reckoned with, by Miranda Devine (12 December 2015)

“The most despicable thing about the feminist movement is that it exploits male protective instincts and male virtues such as self-sacrifice for the “greater good” in order to expand female privilege. It doesn’t actually challenge these gender roles in any meaningful sense. But I agree it’s time to put an end to chivalry. The cat is out of the bag and it’s not going back in.” (Source)

Man is crushed to death by falling elevator in New York City (1 January 2016)

Video captures man’s attempt to catch woman falling 11 storeys (1 January 2016)

If men owe women chivalry, what do women owe men? (30 November 2015)

YOYO 19: One day a month, stop protecting women (30 September 2015)

The sad reality of today’s male-female dynamic. I have women I love in my life and I wish things were different. It’s sad people have to think twice before helping others (9 September 2015) Reddit discussion thread

Why don’t we have stories about women sacrificing themselves for the men they love? by Janet Bloomfield (9 July 2015)

Men must stop playing by the rules, walk away, and claim their autonomy. The gender contract is null and void. If a new social contract is to be agreed, it must be agreed by free men (18 June 2015) Reddit mensrights discussion thread

Model receives death threats after splitting bill on date (22 April 2015)

Chivalry but equality: The feminist double-standard, by Prentice Reid (21 April 2015)

What ever happened to chivalry? by Peter Wright (13 April 2015)

Opinion: Chivalry, not gender politics, dictates who pays for that first date, by Caroline Marcus (12 April 2015) Notice not one reader comment in support of this hypocritical sexist tosh

John Stuart Mill on chivalry (31 March 2015)

Chivalry could indicate hidden sexism, study finds (10 March 2015)

Chivalry isn’t dead: Why feminists still want a gentleman Reddit discussion thread and linked article (15 February 2015)

I’m a Feminist and I Still Want These 7 Gentlemanly Gestures. Do You? (20 February 2015) and related reddit mensrights discussion thread

White Ribbon Campaigns: Promoting medieval chivalry (25 November 2014)

And more recently, an article entitled ‘Equality is essential but so is chivalry‘ (Herald Sun 16 June 2014). This one very much in the all rights/no responsibility vein. It starts of bemoaning the fact that nobody stood up for a pregnant woman on a train and then goes on and on from there. The usual feminist theme of … there’s a problem, men caused it, and it’s mens responsibility to fix it … to our specifications. No readers comments were permitted – wonder why? Thank goodness that this MRA made the time to prepare a great rebuttal.

Why women need to start asking men out … because men have no balls (9 September 2014) The author of this incredibly sexist article, notable only for the caustic criticism of the 1,200+ readers comments that follow it, was Lauren Martin.

Jennifer Lawrence Nude Pics Highlight Ongoing Struggle With Chivalry (2 September 2014)

How to be a 21st Century ‘Gentleman’ (12 September 2014) I liked this reader’s comment: “Are there any classes teaching women some basic etiquette, too? Why are we just gripping on men when women need just as much a major make-over on behavior”. This theme is oft repeated – recent versions here and here, and with a rebuttal article here

Feminists and their progressive allies think that children swearing edgy and humorous – provided it’s for a ‘good’ cause (October 2014)

Why I no longer hold doors open for women (9 September 2014)

Why didn’t I stop to help a woman in need?‘ (5 August 2014) The article is fairly ordinary but there is some excellent material amongst the readers comments section.

Pantene ‘Not Sorry’ video tells women to stop apologizing so much (18 June 2014)

From “Women assault elderly man” to “Shame on men” in easy steps, by Jim Muldoon (1 March 2014)

Women are fine with sexism … as long as it benefits them (22 October 2013)

The One Good Man (16 March 2011)

Now for the background to this article you’ll need to take a look at this other blog post. In the article feminist author, Lauren Rosewarne, lashes out at those concerned about comments made by a federal parliamentarian. That politician told journalists that she wanted a male partner who was rich, well-endowed and who didn’t talk. Lauren haughtily admonishes us, today the sane amongst us dismiss such notions as laughably repressive and egregiously controlling.”

chivalrychivalry sanaya

The ‘Marriage Strike’ and MGTOW

Oh, if only I could get a dollar each time I heard a woman say “where have all the nice guys gone!?” (here’s a recent offering). One may not, however, mention the corresponding query “where have all the nice girls gone” because that would be so terribly misogynistic.

Well, some clever guys made their way to Asia or to other parts of the world where the influence of feminism is less pervasive. Many others are waking up and smelling the coffee with respect to what a bad deal marriage can be for men. As a consequence a large and steadily increasing number of men are choosing not to get married, a phenomenon some have labelled ‘The Marriage Strike’.

Other men are taking it a step further and opting not to enter into ANY significant ongoing relationships with women. This latter group are referred to as ‘Men going their own way’ or MGTOW, which is discussed in this video.

A google search on the term ‘marriage strike’ produced many results, including these:

http://www.justfourguys.com/women-start-marriage-strike-men-complete-it/

http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/marriage/why-are-men-going-their-own-way-when-it-comes-to-relationships/

http://drhelen.blogspot.com.au/2010/06/what-hell-is-happening-to-30-something.html

Many would have you believe that this phenomenon reflects men’s unwillingness to commit and accept responsibility to a union of equals. In fact the thread running through all feminists articles on the subject (and most MSM articles too) is that women are dateless or single wholly because of one or more named deficiencies on the part of men. There is rarely even the glimmer of a suggestion that some responsibility rests with women themselves.

Of course there are some men who have issues, but for most the decision not to marry is one of pragmatism. It is the outcome of a rational cost/benefit analysis by men that weighs up all the things they might (or will) lose through marriage, versus those things that they will (or are likely to) gain. The institution of marriage has now swung so far, in terms of the respective rights and responsibilities of men and women, that for men there is unfortunately now only one logical choice.

My own mother is in her 90’s and remains fiercely independent, and still very much sound of mind. Just in her circle of friends and family she has heard plenty of horror stories about guys being divorce-raped by selfish manipulative women. And her take on it? She says that if she was a young guy nowadays then there would be no way to get her to the altar as the odds are so very much stacked against them.

Read the articles below and see if you can seriously blame men for walking away from the institution of marriage. I despair at the number of women that I encounter whose primary, if not sole, focus is on what they can get from a relationship. I strain to see evidence of any serious thought being given to the question of “what I can contribute to this union to ensure it remains strong and fairly balanced?” It’s almost as if their sense of entitlement is so overwhelming that they believe that merely the pleasure of their company should suffice (refer this tweet for example).

Start with these three nuggets of harpy wisdom:

Celibate, Misogynist and Proud —This Is What Contemporary Feminism Has Done to Men (9 October 2016) Be sure to scan the readers comments. See also related Reddit discussion thread here.

Want to get yourself a man? Then shut up (20 January 2016) Strong women can’t get a man because of the unrealistic/unreasonable/inappropriate expectations/behaviour of men (and definitely not because “strong” is fem-speak for ill-mannered, controlling and selfish)

Why women need to start asking men out … because men have no balls (9 September 2014) In this piece an entitled princess pens an article that reads like a recruitment brochure to the MGTOW lifestyle … and be sure to read the comments that follow it.

And then these two articles written from a men’s perspective:

Most women don’t deserve a good man (15 March 2014)

Sad sluts are sad that no one wants to marry them (29 September 2015)

Leaving aside remnant neanderthals, most men today understand and readily concur with the idea of ‘give and take’ within a relationship. But we do have a problem with partners who take, take, take.

Of course once upon a time married men were accorded a higher social status than unmarried men, and marriage was once the only way decent men experienced a viable sex life. But not now.

Ok, so what tangible benefits does marriage confer on a man today?

A family? Assuming a man can afford a family AND marries a woman young enough to conceive, many resist having children. And at the end of the day, most men are all-too-aware that the prevailing legal system can and does remove a husband’s access to his kids with frightening ease and frequency.

A carer and housekeeper? Well this one is no deal-breaker as most guys are willing to pitch in and do their share. Indeed, am I alone in having encountered more than a few households where the husband does most of the house-work, as well as holding down a full-time job? Indeed many women now not only lack domestic skills (thanks to all those progressive mummies and daddies) but are also unwilling to countenance such tasks (example re: cooking).

Achieving financial security through building family wealth? OK, there are now plenty of households where husband and wife both work and contribute towards shared assets such as a house. All this can be to no avail however should a wife become restless and walk away, often availing herself of the often hugely disproportionate benefits conferred by a gynocentric legal system.

Consider also the many households where a wife chooses not to engage in paid work, does little or no housework, whilst profligately spending her husband’s income … only to then later financially destroy him upon initiating her no-fault divorce. Remember that men still generally take significantly more assets into a marriage than do women. Women are more likely to bring debt to the table – ‘student debt‘ for example. Oh, and remember that most divorces are initiated by women.

A similar proposition, though expressed in a somewhat more strident manner, was elucidated in this Return of Kings article.

This post, ‘The Marriage Strike and MGTOW‘, has attracted more hits that any other page in this blog. And then I learnt that for the first time in Google history, as many people are searching on the term ‘MGTOW’ as are searching on the term ‘patriarchy’:

mgtow

Refer links to some interesting, challenging (and some face-palm worthy) articles/videos below:

‘We’re in deep strife’: Fertility wipe-out set to derail COVID-19 recovery (25 September 2020) Australia. It’s just extraordinary how the media routinely identifies tangential issues – in this case Covid-19 – upon which to assign ‘blame’ for the steep decline to marriage & parenthood. Anything is fair game, as long as it doesn’t upset the feminists/SJW crew.

Late 30’s feminist gets dumped repeatedly: “Men are so insecure she claims!” (24 June 2020) Good USA video

U.S. births fall to lowest level in 35 years (20 May 2020)

U.S. marriage rate plunges to lowest level on record (29 April 2020)

Is there a man drought in Australia? An Investigation (17 April 2020) Instead of addressing the actual reasons underpinning male reluctance to attach, feminist journos delight in throwing petrol on the fire with ‘wisdom’ like this:

“The perception of scarcity, frontier mentality and entrenched patriarchy has led to a wild proliferation of garbage behaviours among our menfolk”

Victim culture hits the courts: Woman gets paid for career she might have had, but gave up for marriage and kids (29 February 2020)

Young women at Griffith University (Australia) get tips about what to expect/demand in a special dating guide. (February 2020) Gee, hope they enjoy the company of cats.

He said ‘yes’! Why aren’t more women proposing to their boyfriends? (27 December 2019) “Benevolent sexism” is the magic ingredient that’s apparently holding men back from offering the ring. Of course it had to involve some kind of failing on the part of men. Of course it did. That many people take such a narrow view of the issue continues to astound me.

The weakened signal hits home (10 September 2019) by Dalrock

Why are millenial women cheating more than men? (April 2019)

“Kelly was similarly unrepentant. “Part of me did it as a little bit of misandry,” she says. “Like, I can’t feel all that guilty because I didn’t really trust or respect men deeply enough anyway.””

The sex revolution of my youth wasn’t so great. Maybe today’s celibacy is a sign of progress (7 April 2019) Feminist woman gets it completely wrong again, femsplaining that young men steering away from sex and relationships is all about ‘incels’ resenting independent women. Well, apparently.

54-year-old feminist angry at dating agency for not finding her a rich husband (30 March 2019) Just throwing this article in for a chuckle

Speed dating event cancelled due to lack of men (12 February 2019)

Most Americans consider debt a dating deal-breaker (6 February 2019) Then most Americans are coming to their senses

If we seriously want men to marry and become fathers, let’s repeal no-fault divorce (13 January 2019)

The Sex Recession, by Kate Julian (14 November 2018)

The Breaking Point: Why Do Women Initiate Divorce More Than Men? (23 July 2018) States that 90% of all divorces are initiated by college-educated women

If we seriously want men to marry and become fathers, let’s repeal no-fault divorce (17 June 2018)

Rise of the bromance is bad for women, could become ‘genuine lifestyle relationship’: study (12 October 2017)

I’ve Gotten Blown Off By Men So Much Lately That I’m Literally Questioning Everything (October 2017) Author displays total absence of understanding that men have been treated this way since forever (well before the advent of dating apps!) Welcome to our world darling. Reader’s comments scathing but accurate.

Why are good men so hard to find? (23 September 2017) Canada. Author concludes that both men and women need to “get their act together”, but in ways she doesn’t clearly spell out.

Pension pot gold diggers: Middle aged women who marry a second time are mainly motivated by money (19 September 2017) UK

‘Cheap sex’ is making men give up on marriage (2 September 2017) USA. Men being immature, men wallowing in porn. Has to be men’s fault. Just has to be.

Explaining “MGTOW”: What this men’s rights trend is all about (16 May 2017) Some good reader’s comments

Step up so they don’t have to (Part 1), by Dalrock (10 May 2017) An interesting Christian perspective on the contemporary male’s choice to avoid marriage. And whilst we consider the Christian perspective, perhaps view this video entitled ‘ Young Women shouldn’t settle’, about what men versus women expect from their marriage partner.

Response to Jordan Peterson’s comments on MGTOW, by Karen Straughan (24 April 2017) Video

I’ll tell you where all the good men have gone (13 April 2017) Good overview of the issue

Older women, the expired lottery tickets – MGTOW (5 April 2017) Video

To fix marriage, we need to fix divorce (31 March 2017)

How couples are easily spending $150k on the modern Aussie dream wedding (17 February 2017)

Denying the feminist rebellion by Dalrock (9 February 2017) Recommended reading.

Most men are not afraid of commitment (19 January 2017)

Divorcees take five years to recover financially (13 December 2016) Interesting how the writer elects to profile a woman in this article … no sympathy for men?

Why Do These Straight Men Want Nothing to Do With Women? (18 October 2016)

The lonely single men of MGTOW (25 June 2016)

Why can’t women find a good man? (21 June 2016)

Women ‘freeze their eggs because they are waiting for Mr Right – rather than putting their career first’. Today’s generation have high standards and want Mr Right over Mr Will Do (17 June 2016) UK, with related Reddit discussion thread here

No, I’m not afraid to be single in my 40s (4 June 2016) I wonder if the author and female readers would view a man writing an article (in which he expressed similar thoughts) in the same light? If yes, then great. I somehow suspect however that there would be comments along the lines of the man being selfish, a man-boy, unable to shoulder responsibility, etc

Millennials’ latest mistake: embracing the ‘starter marriage’ (29 March 2016)

Marriage Is Declining Because Men Are Pigs (24 March 2016) As with the article below, this paper endeavours to falsely paint the marriage strike as indicative of a monumental failure by men.

Single By Choice: Why Fewer American Women Are Married Than Ever Before (4 March 2016) USA, with related Reddit discussion thread here. Female author attempts to present marriage strike trend as something that women want/brought about – men are air-brushed out of the picture entirely.

Young women increasingly anxious about their finances (7 March 2016) Australia. Two things here. Note increasing unhappiness of women despite feminist ‘advances’. Second I wonder how much of that stress is due to the realisation that they are increasingly unlikely to find a Mr. Right (or Mr. Anybody) who will step in and clear their debts and then keep them in the manner … So no Plan B after years of casual mooching of boyfriends & living day to day.

Real housewives of Gen Y: Rise of the millennial homemaker (6 March 2016) Australia. If true then I feel sorry that many will be unsuccessful in realising their choice, thanks in large part to their mothers’ complicity with the feminist movement. Related Reddit discussion thread here.

Women: Where are all the good men? (18 February 2016)

Marriage Debate by Peter Hitchens (10 February 2016) Video

College-Educated Women Can’t Find Good Men – What’s to blame? (3 February 2016)

Young Men Giving up on Marriage: ‘Women Aren’t Women Anymore’ (8 January 2016) USA

Blaming men for the rise of childless women is an insult to both genders (7 January 2016) UK

Marriage proposals are still a guy thing (5 January 2016)

The Mating Crisis Among Educated Women, by David M Buss (January 2016) USA. An article written by a male academic, but from a wholly gynocentric perspective.

Tamara Chabe: Female graduates lose out as feminists kill the dating scene (16 December 2015) Be sure to peruse the readers comments

Minnesota nears slipping below 50 percent married rate (3 December 2015) USA. Why do most of these articles only provide a part of the picture and studiously ignore the rest? For e.g. they all mention that the marriage rate is dipping due to women delaying marriage, but neglect to mention that one reason they do is because many men don’t want to marry them!

Obligational Why Men Don’t Want to Marry Article (23 November 2015)

The Sunday Times Magazine Provides Frank, Humanizing Look at the Men Going Their Own Way (18 November 2015)

Meet the men giving up on women (15 November 2015) UK. This article is behind a paywall but google searching might locate a freebie version

Belinda Brown: Men don’t need to marry to get sex (2 November 2015)

Why are men frightened of marriage? (26 October 2015)

Hooking Up When You’re an Anti-Rape Activist (23 October 2015) Mainly included here because of the reader’s comments. See also related reddit discussion thread here.

It’s Not Your Imagination, Single Women: There Literally Aren’t Enough Men Out There (26 September 2015) USA

These women can’t find enough marriageable men (24 September 2015) and related reddit discussion thread here

“The Economics of Sex: Why are There No Good Men Left?” (9 September 2015)

Where have all the good men gone? (25 August 2015) and related reddit discussion thread

Observations on Relationships in a Grocery Store (22 August 2015)

Feminizing the decline (19 August 2015)

Supreme Court Says That Gays Can Get Married; Women Hardest Hit (27 June 2015)

MGTOWs are losers – really? (26 June 2015)

Men must stop playing by the rules, walk away, and claim their autonomy. The gender contract is null and void. If a new social contract is to be agreed, it must be agreed by free men (18 June 2015)

Men giving up on women (and women who hate them) (13 June 2015)

Fewer Young People Say I Do — to Any Relationship (8 June 2015)

The fascinating connection between how much married people make and how likely they are to cheat (4 June 2015)

Coontz, Cherlin and Putnam Get it Wrong on the Decline of Marriage (1 June 2015)

Rich educated women cannot find husbands and it’s all your fault,  by Sargon of Akkad (10 May 2015) Video

Men are to blame for the high divorce rate among America’s poor (4 May 2015) and related reddit mensrights discussion thread

Where are all the smart men? (3 May 2015) New Zealand with related reddit mensrights discussion threads here and here. A separate, and even more ignorant editorial here concludes with “The failure of men to foot it with them educationally in equal numbers is no reason to change the education system or promote men undeservedly. The shortage of partners for highly educated women is a problem only men can solve. Get your credentials, boys.”

Why men won’t marry you (1 May 2015)

Kathy Gyngell: Sexodus anger needs to be channelled before it explodes (27 April 2015)

Don’t give up on marriage? Request denied (23 April 2015)

Men’s rights activist to Fox News: Men need to avoid marriage at all costs (22 April 2015)

Kathy Gyngell: Men should stand up to feminists, not turn their backs on womankind (21 April 2015)

‘Divorce Corp’ 2014 documentary

Why men refuse to marry: Women complain chaps today won’t settle down. Sorry, ladies, but it’s all your fault, argues a wickedly provocative new book… Denigration of Men (20 April 2015)

Yes, Matt Yglesias, The Marriage Decline Is A Problem (2 April 2015)

The other impact that feminism has had on young men and relationships (30 March 2015) Reddit mensrights discussion thread

Inequality and the marriage crisis (26 March 2015)

MGTOW: Know them by their words (25 March 2015) This article by Peter Wright looks at sub-groups within the MGTOW movement

Majority of UK women don’t bathe or take a shower daily (24 February 2015)

Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married (12 February 2015) Author pushes the standard line that men aren’t marrying because they are immature. More than 2,000 readers put her on the right track

This article was a collaboration between Janet Bloomfield (aka JudgyBitch) and her husband on the subject of the modern woman’s one-sided expectations of marriage: Mr Judgy Bitch speaks (30 July 2013)

Okay, MGTOW, I get it now. If this is the option, I’d pass too‘ by Janet Bloomfield (22 April 2014) with a related discussion at reddit/mensrights here and a follow-up post here

Who said love was dead? More than HALF of under-35s getting married consider getting a pre-nup before they tie the knot (14  March 2015)

Women selling/buying positive pregnancy tests (March 2015) Youtube video

Feminist explains why porn ban is necessary: “A recent German study found a clear negative correlation between consumption of Internet pornography and marriage rates among young men!!!” Article and related reddit mensrights discussion thread (2 February 2015)

MGTOW: An impersonal force of history (13 December 2014)

Celebrating divorce by denying its existence (6 December 2014)

The Sexodus, Part 1: The men giving up on women and checking out of society (4 December 2014) with related discussion thread here, and The Sexodus, Part 2: Dishonest Feminist panics leave male sexuality in crisis (9 December 2014)

Can Stay-At-Home Dads Satisfy A Woman’s Need To Marry Up? (16 November 2014)

Is Marriage going Extinct? (19 October 2014)

Man ordered to pay £28,500 to his ex-girlfriend after break-up in landmark court ruling for unmarried couples (17 October 2014)

I left the love of my life because I thought I could do better. Now I’m childless and alone at 42 (9 September 2014) 652 reader’s comments suggest that this article hit a chord with many readers.

Why isn’t Carl good enough?’ (28 April 2014)

Don’t date before divorce, judge tells women (22 September 2014)

Record Share of Americans Have Never Married (24 September 2014) Interesting reading from Wendy Wang and Kim Parker at Pew Research

Why more women choose not to marry (15 October 2014) More than 2,000 readers comments, with a related reddit mensrights discussion thread here

The new merry-go-round (4 October 2014)

Has the war against men already been won? (5 October 2014)

Census: Marriage rate at 93 year low – even including same sex couples (18 September 2014)

MGTOW, Women and Sex by John Hembling (17 September 2014)

Man who paid child support for 22 years can’t get a refund (19 August 2014)

Fewer men are working, and marriage is dying (3 October 2014)

Six reasons why men are avoiding marriage by Helen Smith Ph.D (3 July 2013) Youtube video

Mates? Most married men waved our best friends goodbye years ago (13 August 2014)

The Future of Women in a MGTOW Society (12 December 2013) USA

You asked for it ladies, by Hannah Wallen (25 July 2013)

Can most men really afford a girlfriend? (15 April 2013)

Why men are withdrawing from courtship (15 November 2013)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nica-noelle/are-women-sexually-oppressing-men_b_5582485.html

The American dream is every man’s nightmare (24 June 2014)

Feminist gay-bashing (27 June 2013) Is feminist antipathy towards gay men part and parcel of feminist loathing of MGTOW’s?

Young men giving up on marriage: ‘Women aren’t women anymore’ (10 January 2013) Recommended reading

Of marriage and men: stereotypes that ignore half the story, by Bettina Arndt (14 October 2012)

The More Chores A Husband Does, The More Likely The Marriage Will End In Divorce (28 September 2012)

Men not marrying? How deep does “the problem” go? (15 March 2012) USA video

The long, strange quest to find a substance that kills sexual desire (2012)

Why are today’s young men scared of girls who want children? Reddit discussion and linked article

http://www.shrink4men.com/2013/10/31/in-his-own-words-fake-pregnancy-fake-miscarriage-pwned/

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/winning-the-lottery/

http://www.canadiancock.org/2014/03/22/honey-i-love-you-lets-get-divorced/

http://miltrosenberg.com/show/men-on-strike/

A video called ‘Divorce Corp’ (2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXQf2f2Yxo (A video called ‘Six reasons why men are avoiding marriage’)

http://www.unc.edu/courses/2010fall/econ/586/001/Readings/Brinig.pdf (‘These Boots Are Made For Walking’: Why Most Divorce Filers Are Women” American Law And Economics Review 2.1 (2000): 126-169

Some more reading/viewing:

The Marriage Strike Reddit and The MGTOW Reddit (discussion fora)

Redonkulas.com on MGTOW (satirical video) (19 March 2015)

I Wasn’t Treating My Husband Fairly, And It Wasn’t Fair (28 December 2014)

According to Hedonic Theory men have a greater chance of returning to their “hapiness baseline” after a serious spinal injury than they will after marriage (29 October 2014) Reddit discussion thread and linked article

Does your partner have a back-up waiting to take your place? (12 October 2014)

Whatever happened to ‘happy wife, happy life’? (10 July 2014)

78 percent of never-married women are looking for a spouse with a job. Finding one might be tricky (24 September 2014)

Woman steals ex-boyfriends sperm, has twins, sues for child support (23 November 2011)

Dr. Helen Smith on where the good men are, and why they left (19 June 2013)

This article is about “Men going their own way”

http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/on-the-mhra-mgtow-and-creating-a-counter-culture/

Message to men: It’s not you, it’s Mr Right (Australia)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/371974-Man-Woman/

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/dating-tips-advice/why-dont-men-like-smart-strong-successful-women/ 

http://missnaja.wordpress.com/2012/09/04/why-men-marry-some-women-and-not-others-by-john-t-molloy/

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865599574/Divorce-rates-are-higher-than-you-might-think-new-research-finds.html?pg=all

http://mensrightsarehumanrights.wordpress.com/2014/02/25/how-dare-you-have-an-opinion-on-me/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFzEOL2kbZU (Bill Burr on why he won’t get married – comedy video)

Here’s another article entitled “Parasitism and the Marriage Strike

This article includes a chart showing the decreasing rate of marriage in ten countries.

This UK newspaper article discusses the strong trend towards divorce on the basis of “unreasonable behaviour” by the female spouse.

Another UK newspaper article:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-398998/How-feminism-destroyed-real-men.html

The myth of the lonely old man (12 September 2011)

Finally be sure to take a look at this GREAT ‘Girl Writes What’ video

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Elsewhere in this blog you might be interested in reading:

Apparently there’s not enough educated men nowadays

Men and women and their increasingly divergent attitudes to parenthood

We’ve all heard of the gender ‘income gap’, but what about the ‘expense gap’?

Mens human rights activism: A growing tide of men and women saying “Enough is enough!”

MHRA stands for ‘mens human right activism’ or ‘mens human rights activist’. It’s an acronym that the community is going to encounter more and more often in the media. Another commonly used term is ‘Mens Rights Activist’ or MRA.

As with feminism, the non/anti-feminist sector has a number of discernible groups within it as shown in the diagram below. MHRA’s/MRA’s represent just one of these. Another significant subset of the mens movement is known as MGTOW (Men going their own way).

manosphere

I once thought the Mens Rights Movement consisted of guys running naked together in the forest, or weird stuff like that. Maybe it was once upon a time, but back in those days I wasn’t paying much attention as I still thought that feminists had a valid point. Now, many years later, I can appreciate the chasm between the cuddly all-inclusive (we’re only interested in equality!) variety of feminism that’s presented in the mainstream media, and what the self-appointed leaders of this insidious movement are actually saying and doing.

The feminist/media portrayal of those people interested involved with mens rights is very much based on an image of ill-tempered, right-wing, portly and socially-inept white middle-aged men. In actual fact there is enormous diversity amongst MRA with regards to age, gender, and the political and religious viewpoints that are held. There is also a major division between the ‘trad-cons’ (traditional conservatives) and the those that believe that men need to create a new social construct based on egalitarian principles. This article by Dean Esmay discusses the tradcon perspective.

Interestingly, many MRA initially identified as feminists but then became disillusioned due to the hypocrisy and corruption of that movement. Warren Farrell was a high-flier in the feminist movement before becoming a pioneer and leading light in the mens rights movement, here he talks about certain aspects of this transition.

Both this discussion, and this article, are about the relationship between the Mens Rights movement and feminism and whether it is feasible to have a foot in each camp. This feminist blog post asks the same question (see also interesting comments about domestic violence late in the readers comments section). This reddit discussion, on the other hand, looks at how feminist women stifle input from men who join their movement.

The MHR movement involves men and women who are committed to taking action to address  the hypocrisy, deceit, and increasingly anti-male bigotry of current day feminism. Yes, I said men AND women. One of the refreshing things about most mens rights organisations and web sites is that ideas and input by women are welcomed and encouraged.

These two reddit discussion threads concern women who are sympathetic to the mens rights cause (thread 1 and thread 2), with both containing quite a number of interesting comments. This is a great article (August 2014) about women who are active in the mens rights movement, and here’s another.

Here is a BBC radio interview with Karen Straughan (September 2014), and here is a July 2015 video by Karen entitled ‘Why do MRA’s attack feminism?Here is a video by a founding member of the Honey Badger Brigade which notes some of the differences between feminism and the men’s rights movement.

This article in Salon, on the other hand, does a hatchet-job on them, as does this article from Amanda Marcotte. But more on feminist views regarding MRA in other posts in this blog.

If you are new to the subject then this article entitled ‘An Introduction to the Men’s Rights Movement‘ (21 March 2015) is a good place to start. I would also recommend that you take a look at The Illustrated Empathy Gap web site.

There are also a number of other articles listed below concerning what the men’s movement is all about, and there are also many relevant web sites detailed on this page within my blog.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/whats-the-difference/
http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism/about/
http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/setting-the-record-straight/
http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/7-staple-mhra-arguments/
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-lies-feminism/did-we-hit-a-nerve-amanda-like-phony-surveys-much-amandamarcotte-szvan-pandagon/
Yes to men’s rights (provided it never actually happens) (20 May 2014)
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9197481/the-descent-of-man
Women of the mens rights movement (video) (23 July 2014)

This article advises that CAFE Canada was subject to exclusion from the 2014 Pride Parade. Clearly feminist elements within the LGBT community applied pressure due to CAFE’s activities in advocating for men and boys.

This is a fabulous rebuttal (by Victor Zen) of a young feminist’s complaint that she felt threatened by the creation of a men’s rights advocacy group at her university. And here is a follow-up post by Victor.

One of the standard taunts of the feminist movement is that MHRA organisations are “hate groups”. They largely pin this claim on a statement made by an organisation known as the ‘Southern Poverty Law Centre’. Read this article by that organisation, and as always, be sure to look at the readers comments. Too bad, too sad, that the FBI recently distanced themselves from the SPLC.

In actual fact, mens rights groups have an exemplary record in relation to using non-violent means to make their point. Indeed in one recent situation, various branches of the men’s rights movement raised a reward in order to try to find a person who was alleged to have attacked a Canadian feminist. Various feminist groups were approached to match this amount, but chose not to do so.

Many men in western countries believe that their only choice is between celibacy and submitting to the gynocentric strictures of the society in which they live. For these folks an epiphany can occur via exposure to life within another different culture, and I think this is evident in some of the material links to this post about cross-cultural marriages.

The issue of why many men are having difficulty appreciating the social changes that are seeing mens position in society being increasingly eroded, is addressed in this article. The other related factors slowing the growth of men’s rights activism are media bias, and feminist tactics such as shaming, censorship and disruption which have been reasonably effective in stifling open and organised group dissent up to this point in time.

Why do so few MRAs engage in practical (offline) activism? by Jim Buchanan (26 August 2019)

Cognitive Distortion in Thinking About Gender Issues: Gamma Bias and the Gender Distortion Matrix (2 March 2019) Contains many links to further relevant sources

State of the Manosphere 2018, by Rollo Tomassi

Can we discuss gender issues rationally? Yes, if we can stop gamma bias, by Martin Seager and Dr John Barry (4 December 2018)

Is it time for #HeToo to ‘save the males’? (6 August 2018)

When did “angry men” become political pariahs? (26 October 2017) by Corrine Barraclough

It doesn’t look like anything to me: Confronting Willful Blindness Against Men’s Issues (14 May 2017)

To Feminists with Love, by Steve Brule (video)

The Forces on Men, by Tom Golden (31 January 2017) Video

The Important Achievements of the Men’s Rights Movement (9 October 2016)

The new gender agenda – A TedX talk by Glen Poole

Centuries of oppression (30 May 2016) Yes, that’s right, a post about that endlessly-repeated claim that men have had the upper-hand since time began.

A non-feminist FAQ (6 August 2016)

The men’s rights movement: A smart, necessary counterweight to man-hating feminism‘ (2 August 2016)

The Red Pill: the movie about men that feminists didn’t want you to see (12 November 2015)

Why do MRA’s attack feminism? (7 July 2015) A video by Karen Straughan

A reader’s comprehensive comment on men’s rights, from the Telegraph (July 2014) Reddit mensrights discussion thread

Louder Than Words: What Modern Feminism Has Actually Achieved (3 June 2015)

Innocent until proven guilty. Unless you are a man (10 May 2015) Australia

National Coalition for Men successes (May 2015) USA and here is a further list on North American successes for the men’s rights movement

Has Britain become hostile to blokes? (March 2015) BBC video

Is Finding Equality Just as Difficult for Boys in the Current Climate? (16 March 2015)

The most important difference between Men’s Rights and Feminism (11 March 2015)

Men’s rights movement: why it is so controversial? (19 February 2015) The article is rubbish but the reader’s comments informative

Are Men’s Rights Activists Misogynistic Pricks? (28 November 2014)

A Recent Manosphere Tactic: Fighting Fire with Fire (16 November 2014) Reddit mensrights discussion thread about calling out the hypocrisy of feminists and other SJW

Catering to men’s rights is not the point of feminism (15 October 2014)

Why so few men protest anti-male sexism (Or: Why men fear women) (23 January 2012)

What is the ‘Lace Curtain’? by Warren Farrell (1999) with Part 2 here

“We care about men as human doings, not as human beings. We care about him as an individual like I care about the individual parts of my car – I care about its problems only when it’s causing me problems. Or I care about prevention only when lack of prevention will cause me problems. Even when a man’s problems are affecting his ability to be a protector, we often refer to his problems from the perspective of the problems they create for a woman (he cheated on her; he got drunk and hit her). Which is why the other men who make the front pages are the villains who are causing us problems.

In brief, men’s lives count only to the degree they are heroes who perform for us or save us, or villains who disturb our peace. Women’s lives count more for their own sake…a woman’s pain is every talk show.”

Not all is great in the world of men: a reference book of men’s issues

How can you be an anti-feminist? Do you not believe in equality? I have come across many lists like this, showing mens disadvantage in key areas, but never one this detailed.

http://masculistfeminist.hubpages.com/hub/Misogynisticfeminism-One-Males-Perspective-On-Sexism

http://www.cultural-misandry.com/mens-rights/

http://www.womenagainstmen.com/about and http://www.womenagainstmen.com/media/feminism-is-a-hate-group.html

http://it-goes-both-ways.tumblr.com/

http://eyeofwoden.wordpress.com/2014/02/19/feminism-is-not-mandatory/

http://eyeofwoden.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/debunking-mras-debunked/

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminism-seeks-rights-without-responsibilities/ (Some historical context to the contemporary mens rights movement)

http://thealternativesexismproject.wordpress.com/leave-your-stories-about-sexism-here/

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/22ejs8/my_own_story_of_how_i_became_an_advocate_of_mens/

Men’s Rights Market (pro-MRA & anti-feminism merchandise)

If you wish to keep abreast of men’s rights issues then a very good source to monitor is the reddit subgroup on mens rights. A few examples of the hundreds of discussion threads there are shown below:

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/18ihpf/so_many_women_are_posting_about_why_they_need/

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/o79t1/a_girl_who_supports_mens_rights/

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1h8q2e/as_a_young_man_i_am_scared_to_take_up_the_mantle/

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/28lupr/creating_a_complete_rebuttal_of_feminism/

Also have a look at this brief article which provides quite a reasonable middle-of-the-road discussion that includes good readers comments with links to further supporting information.

anti_you